Other makes charging on a Tesla supercharger

[SarasotaGuy]

Elon’s announcement that Tesla will make their supercharger network available to other EVs, in my opinion, substantially devalues our Teslas. The huge differentiating advantage Tesla has is it’s charging network and that is the whole reason I never looked a Mustang Mach E. The last thing we’ve want is to stop to charge on a trip only to find Chevy Bolts taking all the Superchargers and having to wait.

 

[Candleflame]

Elon’s announcement that Tesla will make their supercharger network available to other EVs, in my opinion, substantially devalues our Teslas. The huge differentiating advantage Tesla has is it’s charging network and that is the whole reason I never looked a Mustang Mach E. The last thing we’ve want is to stop to charge on a trip only to find Chevy Bolts taking all the Superchargers and having to wait.

with their 30kw fast charging capability...

 

[mociaf9]

Elon’s announcement that Tesla will make their supercharger network available to other EVs, in my opinion, substantially devalues our Teslas. The huge differentiating advantage Tesla has is it’s charging network and that is the whole reason I never looked a Mustang Mach E. The last thing we’ve want is to stop to charge on a trip only to find Chevy Bolts taking all the Superchargers and having to wait.

I'm not yet convinced that everyone is reading and interpreting Elon's tweet correctly. The trouble with Elon statements is that you have to be very careful how you read them as they may be true in a limited sense, but not in a less careful, more simple and straight forward reading sense. In this case, I could definitely see "we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year" meaning that just 1 or 2 start-up EV makes was going to be able to use the supercharger network, not that all other EVs will be able to use it. I know I've seen pics of an Aptera with a Tesla charging port, and their announced date for beginning deliveries is January 2022, which would track with the timeline in Elon's tweet.

I would have also included the possibility that he was only talking about a limit portion of the supercharger network, like only locations in a specific country or region. But a subsequent tweet from him said that it would eventually include the entire network, "Over time, all countries."

 

[rogbmw]

As a early Model S owner (2013), and a Tesla stock holder, I am in total disagreement with Tesla sharing their supercharger network. The Supercharger network is one of the major differences that sets Tesla apart from other manufacturers, and has many times been touted as such. The Supercharger I usually use when I am on my usual trip (I normally charge at home) is busy enough. The last thing I want is to pull in, and there be a line of non-Tesla's waiting to charge. We will have to wait and see if and how the details are set up, but if they do share, I would be in favor of only opening up a small percentage of the stalls to non-Tesla owners.

 

[DayTrippin]

Sadly I don't think Elon cares that much about how it will impact actual Tesla owners. LIke many others, I think it really gives up a huge competitive advantage and it may impact the Tesla I have on order. Most of the Tesla owners I've met have good SuC etiquette. I don't know how that will play out with other owners. SuCs are already over crowded in a lot of areas and even worse at certain times of the year.

It will be even worse if these cars can't charge at a fast rate and take twice or three times as long to get to an adequate charge level. Will Tesla limit how long anyone can stay at a SuC in even more strict terms? Will I appreciate the mission, the final deciding factor for me to buy a Tesla this year was the SuC network advantage. That was the one area where nobody is even remotely close.

There are a lot of other good BEVs out there. You can debate whether they are as good as Tesla or not, but the one area where it was not debatable was the SuC network. Nobody could touch Tesla yet. I am willing to see how this plays out but so far I feel like Tesla is sometimes going the wrong way on some things; removing radar (especially in the way they did it), removing lumbar support from the MY passenger side, yoke steering wheel, and now opening up the SuC network. IF there were a surplus of chargers everywhere, I would understand it a bit more. I will be curious to see how they price the access and what a cluster it hopefully won't turn out to be.

I can be certain if the SuC network gets clogged with a lot of non-Tesla cars, and Tesla owners can't charge, there are going to be a lot of really pissed off people. Traveling by BEV a long distance isn't as seamless as a decent gas car and to add friction back into your loyal owners is not a good move. I think Elon has been more like ready, fire, aim lately.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I don't think this is coming to the USA any time soon and if it does, non-Tesla's would need to have their own CCS adapter in order to use the superchargers. Also I don't see a US manufacturer striking a deal with Tesla. It seems more likely this will happen in Europe.

 

[EVforLiPo]

Hi all new here. Totally understand the disappointment a lot of Tesla owners are feeling. In the bigger picture this is actually good news for everyone. The mission has always been to get more people to buy/drive EVs. If opening up the Supercharger network so that more people will buy EVs then it's mission accomplished.

Eventually I do believe all EVs will be able to charge on the Supercharger network. Its just a matter of when.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

with their 30kw fast charging capability...

55kW.

 

[tivoboy]

If they open up the NA network to this to all other EV’s it would be a TOTAL mess. I can’t imagine other EV’s being able to use the SC’s at full speed, even with adaptors and that would only lead to longer charge times at any location, and of course especially during the peak times and holidays would be even worse. Tesla MIGHT be trying to add some DC fast charging charges AT some of the SC’s, where they have extra space and energy capacity. Unsure. At a minimum, it probably can’t possibly happen sooner that at LEAST a year, then there is Elon time, etc. I’m not too worried for now or most of 2022, but towards that end it might be less of a differentiator in some regions than it certainly is today.

 

[Earl]

I think Tesla sharing our Supercharger network profitably would be great!
For an OEM, it would take, perhaps $500M per year investment in TSLA to increase the network size and charging their cars would cost 150% of the local cost of electricity minus any subsidy the particular OEM wishes to kick in. Perhaps a 20% surcharge for cars that can't charge faster than 80 kW would be appropriate as well to help build out more Superchargers to account for those station-hogs. A CCS to Supercharger adapter could be made and sold for $2K (offsets network expansion costs) and then the 150% cost for electricity.
- Such an infusion of capital would allow huge expansion of the Supercharger network which would benefit Tesla owners greatly and offset the additional usage by non-Tesla owners.
- We long-term TSLA shareholders would enjoy the profits from this new, long-term service business.
- The living creatures on earth would benefit from more EVs and fewer ICE sooner.
As an IPO TSLA shareholder and early Roadster owner (2006), my vision on this subject has been quite good thus far. Of course, I also don't see any of the major ICEmakers joining in any faster than they have for the past decade. I also figure the US DoJ would separate the charging business from the car business (as well as energy and car-sharing businesses) for anti-trust reasons within a decade. That would be just fine since they would already be sustainable businesses and we'd get shares in all companies.

 

[CitizenKane]

Would it be technically possible to only allow other brands to charge if the Supercharger has more than one stall free? It would seem like a way to both make money and not screw Tesla owners.

 

[smogne41]

My next car will probably not be a Tesla, so this is great news for me! I hope they do a good job of the transition though. There is a strong argeument for both requiring a minimum charging capibility of the guest cars (so hopefully no Bolts/Leafs), and perhaps not opening all locations (like most of SoCal) if they are already at capacity. This is about the only thing Tesla has announced or implimented in the last year that I am actually happy about, but there are tones of details (actually all of them) that we still don't know. Given how the company is run, I suspect neither Elon or Tesla know any of the details either

 

[mark95476]

Remember how Tesla sells other manufacturer carbon credits? That money funded Tesla's development and expansion.

Other manufacturers are now going to fund Tesla's Supercharger footprint expansion. I bet this access won't come cheap, either.

I'm a little torn, but this will more or less cement Tesla's Supercharger being the only real viable fast-charging solution in North America. I don't think Electrify America is working out. Lets see if VW, who more or less funds EA due to their emissions cheating, is going to sign-up to get SC access for their EVs.

 

[brucet999]

with their 30kw fast charging capability...

Well, it's actually 55kW, but still very slow.

 

[MrSlippery]

I'm not yet convinced that everyone is reading and interpreting Elon's tweet correctly. The trouble with Elon statements is that you have to be very careful how you read them as they may be true in a limited sense, but not in a less careful, more simple and straight forward reading sense. In this case, I could definitely see "we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year" meaning that just 1 or 2 start-up EV makes was going to be able to use the supercharger network, not that all other EVs will be able to use it. I know I've seen pics of an Aptera with a Tesla charging port, and their announced date for beginning deliveries is January 2022, which would track with the timeline in Elon's tweet.

I would have also included the possibility that he was only talking about a limit portion of the supercharger network, like only locations in a specific country or region. But a subsequent tweet from him said that it would eventually include the entire network, "Over time, all countries."

Exactly this, I really think people are reading into this more than was intended. Yes I think the Tesla SC network will in time be opened up for more EV's, as you said that may start with select vehicles and may then slowly change to a scenario were a few of the bays have dual cords one Tesla and the other CCS.

I do not believe for a second Tesla will just add a CCS connector to every SC and say screw you to their customers. As new Tesla SC stations are built this will allow that slow change to happen.

Personally if done correctly I think this is a great thing for all EV's, the SC network is by far the best charging solution currently and Tesla does not want to lose that lead with CCS and the new EV standard.

 

[Big Earl]

I'm still approaching this from the prospective of Tesla developing an app plus a smart adapter that other individual EV owners can purchase in order to enable their non-Tesla to use the Supercharger network. As a shareholder, I can see this becoming a major revenue stream for Tesla, free advertising, and a lure to get non-Tesla EV buyers into the Tesla ecosystem. Maybe their next EV will be a Tesla, or they might get solar or some other future Tesla product. OEMs don't want to have to deal with charging and 3rd party EV charging is a challenging business model.

As long as Tesla expands the Supercharger network exponentially, as Elon has indicated they intend to do, I'm not concerned with stations getting overwhelmed. I see this as a shot across the bow of companies like Electrify America who struggle to provide satisfactory user experiences. Providing a great charging experience to all EVs will increase adoption. Teslas aren't for everyone and even if they were, Tesla can't meet the world's demand for vehicles on their own. Opening the Supercharger network increases revenue, cements Tesla as the leader in charging/energy delivery and, most importantly, advances sustainable transportation.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Exactly this, I really think people are reading into this more than was intended. Yes I think the Tesla SC network will in time be opened up for more EV's, as you said that may start with select vehicles and may then slowly change to a scenario were a few of the bays have dual cords one Tesla and the other CCS.

I do not believe for a second Tesla will just add a CCS connector to every SC and say screw you to their customers. As new Tesla SC stations are built this will allow that slow change to happen.

Personally if done correctly I think this is a great thing for all EV's, the SC network is by far the best charging solution currently and Tesla does not want to lose that lead with CCS and the new EV standard.

I'm still approaching this from the prospective of Tesla developing an app plus a smart adapter that other individual EV owners can purchase in order to enable their non-Tesla to use the Supercharger network. As a shareholder, I can see this becoming a major revenue stream for Tesla, free advertising, and a lure to get non-Tesla EV buyers into the Tesla ecosystem. Maybe their next EV will be a Tesla, or they might get solar or some other future Tesla product. OEMs don't want to have to deal with charging and 3rd party EV charging is a challenging business model.

As long as Tesla expands the Supercharger network exponentially, as Elon has indicated they intend to do, I'm not concerned with stations getting overwhelmed. I see this as a shot across the bow of companies like Electrify America who struggle to provide satisfactory user experiences. Providing a great charging experience to all EVs will increase adoption. Teslas aren't for everyone and even if they were, Tesla can't meet the world's demand for vehicles on their own. Opening the Supercharger network increases revenue, cements Tesla as the leader in charging/energy delivery and, most importantly, advances sustainable transportation.

I think adding a couple CCS cables per Supercharger location (or a low percentage at larger Superchargers) would be best for current Tesla owners. Creating an adapter would be better for non-Tesla owners. Can you imagine showing up at a Supercharger only to find all Superchargers occupied by a Mach-E owner's group charging up before a rally? I bet most Tesla owners would not be happy. An adapter could allow that to happen but having a limited number of CCS cables would ensure Tesla owners still had priority.

Being a Tesla-only household, I'd probably prefer if Tesla would add CCS cables first so that Tesla owners would still have priority and be able to charge at any of the Superchargers. Tesla could gradually upgrade additional Superchargers per location with CCS and eventually add a native CCS port to new Teslas.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm still approaching this from the prospective of Tesla developing an app plus a smart adapter that other individual EV owners can purchase in order to enable their non-Tesla to use the Supercharger network. As a shareholder, I can see this becoming a major revenue stream for Tesla, free advertising, and a lure to get non-Tesla EV buyers into the Tesla ecosystem.

It's an imperfect analogy, but there are some parallels to Apple creating the iTunes store, which I think grew to actually have pretty close to the amount of revenue and profit as selling phones does.

 

[Brass Guy]

Well, it's actually 55kW, but still very slow.

So - just like my 2013 Model S.

 

[Earl]

I think adding a couple CCS cables per Supercharger location

I see no reason for us (Tesla and TSLA owners) to invest significantly enough in 3rd parties to develop AND deploy a solution for them. Investing in developing the solution (CCS to Tesla adapter) should suffice. They can invest themselves by purchasing the devices from Tesla.

Can you imagine showing up at a Supercharger only to find all Superchargers occupied by a Mach-E owner's group charging up before a rally?

This may happen but unlikely more than once in any Tesla owner's life. At full Superchargers, there will definitely be non-Teslas and some myopic Tesla owners will be unhappy and grouse about it. In reality, however, with others supporting the buildout so there are more Superchargers overall, the queuing efficiency of the entire network will increase, thus reducing the times anyone will encounter a full Supercharger.
We early EV and Tesla owners have already seen this. Remember how bad things were at Tejon Ranch the first Thanksgiving after the Superchargers were out? There were only a few thousand Model S's but all traveling from SF or Sacramento had to charge at Tejon Ranch in order to make it to LA after charging at Harris Ranch. The lines were over an hour long IIRC.
Today, with a whole lot more Superchargers (more sites and more chargers per site), waiting times have only been a few minutes, even on busy holiday travel days. There are probably on the order of 10X more supercharger chargers but probably over 100X more cars on the road. With even more people paying for more superchargers, with proper pricing, the number of sites can increase linearly with the number of new cars but, as we see, the capacity will increase even faster.
Its hard to account for the affect of longer range Teslas and faster charging but I'm sure Tesla, with the actual statistics and knows very well what the cueing efficiency parameters are. They know very well where their rollout is cost-limited as well as its capacity. With the right date, its basic Operations Research 101.