out of spec tire size and traction control

[Atraf]

Hi,
After 25k miles I finally need the OEM tires that I got with my car almost 3 years ago.
I was at a Tesla Service Center today for an unrelated issue and asked them if they ran into Model 3s with 245/40R19, they mentioned that sizing up (from 235/40R19) will cause loss of traction control.

OEM sizes:
235/45R18, Diameter: 26.3", Revs/Mile 766
235/40R19, Diameter: 26.4", Rev/Mile 764
235/35R20, Diameter: 26.5", Rev/Mile 762

Size I am considering:
245/40R19, Diameter: 26.7, Rev/Mile 755

Questions:
1) Is what I was told true? Model 3 (Long Range, 2020 for instance) would lose traction control due to out of spec tire size? (even though the gap is just 0.3" to OEM 19" or 0.2" to OEM 20")
2) If going for 245/40R19, should I configure the car (via settings menu, in car) to 235/35R20 as that is the closest tire size to my size?
3) Anyone here with 245/40R19? had any issues regarding traction control or otherwise?

If the car is so picky at tire size .. how does almost bald tire vs brand new tire work? doesn't the tire literally become smaller over time as it wears out? Maybe the person I spoke with wasn't speaking from personal experience and heard stories about extreme tire sizes?

I tried searching for this exact question and couldn't find anything other than some folks with staggered setup where the difference between rear and front was too large for traction control to handle, but not finding doesn't prove it doesn't exist so... sorry if it was asked before, any and all input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[tm1v2]

No, that's a load of bullsh*t. Plenty of us are running 26.7" or slightly larger tires without such issues, in sizes like 245/45R18 (my tires right now!), 245/40R19, 245/35R20, and even 255/35R20 (fits well on the stock M3P wheels, is tight for physical clearance though).

Heck, Tesla's own Track Package comes with 245/35R20 tires.

Everything I've come across says you will run into physical clearance issues with large tire sizes, specifically the knuckle arm, before any issues with the electronics.

I drive my M3P decently hard, not racetrack hard, but lots of twisty road miles plus occasional pushing its limits on empty highway ramps. It most definitely still has traction control with 245/45R18 tires (on 18x8.5" wheels). Track Mode still functions fine too.

 

[tm1v2]

My advice would be:

1) Don't ask Tesla Service anything about non-OE tires.

2) For the car's wheel/tire configurator, I believe what you're thinking is the common advice, set it to the closest outer diameter to what you're running. For me that would be the Track Package setting, but I haven't even bothered changing it, its still set to my stock M3P wheels.

I'm not even sure if that setting affects anything besides the speedometer and display graphics.

There is one person on these forums (I forget who) who was running into an issue with their car getting into some bad state under extremely hard cornering during autocross, while in Track Mode, that seemed to be fixed (avoided) by changing the car's wheel/tire config. They were running extra wide wheels and sticky track/race tires of course. That's the only real evidence I've seen of the wheel/tire config possibly affecting more than just the speedometer. And that surely won't be relevant to how you drive your M3LR without Track Mode.

 

[dsgerbc]

I tried searching for this exact question and couldn't find anything other than some folks with staggered setup where the difference between rear and front was too large for traction control to handle, but not finding doesn't prove it doesn't exist so... sorry if it was asked before, any and all input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Some people experienced this while going for very sticky tires. Start from this post and follow the discussion on. I think the consensus is that the choice of tire config matters in performance applications if one wants to avoid traction control/ABS/powersteering freakouts. @gearchruncher

My recent personal experience adds a bit of extra info: I used to have my wheel config set to 18" wheels. I changed it for autocross to the Zero-G 20" option and kept it there, where I was actually on pretty undersized 19" config with 26" diameter. (Not sure if this bit is relevant but it might be: I was trying to trace some annoying clicking/creaking coming from the front of the car. So, I had my wife turn the steering wheel side to side multiple times while I poked around with a stethoscope). I had two back-to-back instances where the car experienced a just bit of tire slip, and instantly went into limp mode, with ABS/TC/power steering getting disabled. Had I been actually driving at speed on some gravel road it could've been pretty annoying.

I switched back to the 18" setup (and repeated whatever I was doing to diagnose my issues a few more times) with no ill effects since.

So, I think the tire diameter CAN matter for TC errors. It's not going to instantly, it took me a week in a Zero-G mode to experience these errors, but still.

 

[Atraf]

@tm1v2 and @dsgerbc
Thank you for the very informative replies!
I can't believe that I forgot about the Model 3 Track Package and its 245/35R20 tires that work out as Diameter: 26.8" Revs/Mile 754

Also, thanks for linking that autocross thread, my take away is that IF anything was to actually happen (extremely unlikely to begin with, judging by other commenters on thread, that 1) a soft 'close car > open car' reset would undo at least for awhile 2) changing wheel setting would probably resolve it 3) its even less likely to happen as I'm not going for some extra sticky tires)

I suppose I can just try and find out which of the following options work best seeing that my desired tire size is in the middle, I also wonder if bigger than or smaller than is generally preferred:
1) 235/35R20, Diameter: 26.5", Rev/Mile 762
reality: 245/40R19, Diameter: 26.7, Rev/Mile 755
2) 245/35R20,Diameter: 26.8", Rev/Mile 754
(if the car lied to me and told me I was doing say ... 70 when I was doing 68 that would probably be better than me thinking I'm doing 70 while in reality its 72 haha)

@tm1v2 255/45R18 is what I initially wanted to switch to way back when I got the car, just due to potholes fears and how stiff my ride was compering to my last car, at the time I belived that the only way to actaully fit that without issues was on a 18x9J ET+30mm wheels (Ex, FastWheels FC04 with the above spec), what is the offset of your wheel and which wheels do you have?

Thank you again! really came to the rescue, nothing like getting gaslight by Tesla employee

 

[gearchruncher]

Like it was correctly reported here, I have found the wheel config matters, and I can reliably trigger a fault with the wrong config. But to do that I have to be in a very aggressive turn in track mode. Never had it happen on the street even with the "wrong" config.

 

[dsgerbc]

Never had it happen on the street even with the "wrong" config.

I'm curious if the 'diagnostic' I was doing (in combination with a way-off wheel size setting) contributed to me triggering stuff w/o the track mode on and actually driving aggressively.
If you're feeling bored try this:
1) Put the 'wrongest' wheel size setting on
2) Turn your steering full left/right 10ish times while in neutral/foot off brakes. (Maybe put a piece of cardboard under the front wheels and a wheel choke under the rear not to damage your tires from dry-turning in place too many times)
3) Drive so that you can put a wheel off on grass/gravel while turning (I was turning off my driveway with a wheel off pavement both times).

 

[tm1v2]

@tm1v2 255/45R18 is what I initially wanted to switch to way back when I got the car, just due to potholes fears and how stiff my ride was compering to my last car, at the time I belived that the only way to actaully fit that without issues was on a 18x9J ET+30mm wheels (Ex, FastWheels FC04 with the above spec), what is the offset of your wheel and which wheels do you have?

@Atraf I'm using Titan7 T-S5 18x8.5" ET35 forged wheels with 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport 300TW summer tires. The wheels are a direct fit for any Model 3, including M3P PUP brakes with the "stepped lip" hub, no centering rings or spacers needed. The tires are the same category as the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (PS4S) that are super popular here. I haven't used the PS4S yet, but from what I've read, combined with my experience with past Michelin summer street tires, I would expect similar grip levels, with these Bridgestones having somewhat stiffer sidewalls (better for steering response, worse for ride smoothness, pick your priority).

Here are some photos of the wheels. First link is on stock suspension. The rest are on coilovers but set to right about stock height...settled maybe 2-3mm lower.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6611533/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6705435/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6791334/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6789788/

I remember looking into 18x9" with 255/45R18 tires combo. I didn't find many/any direct fit 18x9" wheels for the M3P, and then I realized it's probably because 255/45R18 seems to be an unpopular size with fewer options than either wider or narrower 18". For example, any of 275/40R18, 265/40R18, 245/45R18, 235/45R18 have a much better tire selection, at least for summer performance tires. You could of course run 245/45R18 on 18x9" just fine, but then you might as well go with 18x8.5" wheels, for which there's a much bigger selection (in direct M3P or Model 3 fitments) and which should be slightly lighter.

Also you might have to worry a bit about tire fitment with 255/45R18, whereas 245/45R18 tires will universally fit perfectly fine.

 

[Sam1]

Hi,
After 25k miles I finally need the OEM tires that I got with my car almost 3 years ago.
I was at a Tesla Service Center today for an unrelated issue and asked them if they ran into Model 3s with 245/40R19, they mentioned that sizing up (from 235/40R19) will cause loss of traction control.

OEM sizes:
235/45R18, Diameter: 26.3", Revs/Mile 766
235/40R19, Diameter: 26.4", Rev/Mile 764
235/35R20, Diameter: 26.5", Rev/Mile 762

Size I am considering:
245/40R19, Diameter: 26.7, Rev/Mile 755

Questions:
1) Is what I was told true? Model 3 (Long Range, 2020 for instance) would lose traction control due to out of spec tire size? (even though the gap is just 0.3" to OEM 19" or 0.2" to OEM 20")
2) If going for 245/40R19, should I configure the car (via settings menu, in car) to 235/35R20 as that is the closest tire size to my size?
3) Anyone here with 245/40R19? had any issues regarding traction control or otherwise?

If the car is so picky at tire size .. how does almost bald tire vs brand new tire work? doesn't the tire literally become smaller over time as it wears out? Maybe the person I spoke with wasn't speaking from personal experience and heard stories about extreme tire sizes?

I tried searching for this exact question and couldn't find anything other than some folks with staggered setup where the difference between rear and front was too large for traction control to handle, but not finding doesn't prove it doesn't exist so... sorry if it was asked before, any and all input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Multiple people here, including me, run 255/40/19 tires. ZERO issues.

245/40/19 will not cause any issues.

 

[superflyrolla]

I’ve run 295/30r18s to 255/40r19s (25-27” diameter) and I’m confident there’s no way you would have problems street driving. If I’m sliding the car sideways for minutes then my hazard blinkers turn on.

 

[Atraf]

@tm1v2 Thank you! Was curious about your wheels, and the pictures look great! While true that 255/45R18 is not common, it in my opinion, looks fantastic and very meaty / closes up the wheel well very nicely

@Sam1 When you run 255/40R19, on what width and offset 19" wheels do you do so? and are you using a spacer?

I am currently on the 19" OEM sport wheels (v1, pre-refresh, 19x8.5j, ET+40mm (mounted to M3LR early 2020))

It makes sense (and I often wondered about) 255/40R19 fitting since it is exactly the same Diameter and rev/Mile as 255/45R18 (27"/746)

My understanding, which was proven false once already in this thread - much to my delight, is that this size would require different offset (or spacers) if not outright wider wheel (as to ... "shorten" the height of the tire a little to make space for the upper control arm), is any of it true? or would this, just like the case of 255/45R18, fit the OEM (19" sport v1) wheels?

 

[tm1v2]

My understanding, which was proven false once already in this thread - much to my delight, is that this size would require different offset (or spacers) if not outright wider wheel (as to ... "shorten" the height of the tire a little to make space for the upper control arm), is any of it true? or would this, just like the case of 255/45R18, fit the OEM (19" sport v1) wheels?

@Atraf Well 255/45R18 certainly won't fit any 19" wheels!

Assuming you meant 255/40R19, they will mount just fine on 19x8.5" wide wheels. Going a little wider than recommended for 8.5" wide wheels (typically 245 or 235 recommended) probably isn't best for handling response on pavement, but overall I'm sure you'd be fine in your street driving.

I can't speak to clearance issues, I'd be surprised if you needed spacers but I don't know the sport wheels offset.

 

[Sam1]

@Sam1 When you run 255/40R19, on what width and offset 19" wheels do you do so? and are you using a spacer?

19x8.5 with a 28et. There's plenty of back clearance, not sure on any other offset. But I ran 245/40/19 on the OEM 2019 wheels with zero issues as well.

 

[Gasaraki]

Hi,
After 25k miles I finally need the OEM tires that I got with my car almost 3 years ago.
I was at a Tesla Service Center today for an unrelated issue and asked them if they ran into Model 3s with 245/40R19, they mentioned that sizing up (from 235/40R19) will cause loss of traction control.

OEM sizes:
235/45R18, Diameter: 26.3", Revs/Mile 766
235/40R19, Diameter: 26.4", Rev/Mile 764
235/35R20, Diameter: 26.5", Rev/Mile 762

Size I am considering:
245/40R19, Diameter: 26.7, Rev/Mile 755

Questions:
1) Is what I was told true? Model 3 (Long Range, 2020 for instance) would lose traction control due to out of spec tire size? (even though the gap is just 0.3" to OEM 19" or 0.2" to OEM 20")
2) If going for 245/40R19, should I configure the car (via settings menu, in car) to 235/35R20 as that is the closest tire size to my size?
3) Anyone here with 245/40R19? had any issues regarding traction control or otherwise?

If the car is so picky at tire size .. how does almost bald tire vs brand new tire work? doesn't the tire literally become smaller over time as it wears out? Maybe the person I spoke with wasn't speaking from personal experience and heard stories about extreme tire sizes?

I tried searching for this exact question and couldn't find anything other than some folks with staggered setup where the difference between rear and front was too large for traction control to handle, but not finding doesn't prove it doesn't exist so... sorry if it was asked before, any and all input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Umm, no that's not true. I run 245/40/19s.

 

[Atraf]

@Atraf Well 255/45R18 certainly won't fit any 19" wheels!

Assuming you meant 255/40R19, they will mount just fine on 19x8.5" wide wheels. Going a little wider than recommended for 8.5" wide wheels (typically 245 or 235 recommended) probably isn't best for handling response on pavement, but overall I'm sure you'd be fine in your street driving.

I can't speak to clearance issues, I'd be surprised if you needed spacers but I don't know the sport wheels offset.

Yes, sorry! typoed that, totally meant 255/45R19.
The OEM 19" v1 (-2020) sport wheels have offset of ET+40mm and are indeed 19x8.5".

19x8.5 with a 28et. There's plenty of back clearance, not sure on any other offset. But I ran 245/40/19 on the OEM 2019 wheels with zero issues as well.

I run 245/40/19s.

Okay so its basically settled; a set of 245/40R19 tires would totally mount without fitment issues on the OEM 19" V1 sport wheels, that's great!

And seems like anyone that ran 255/40R19 tires, didn't do so on the OEM wheels and that probably it wouldn't work on the OEM wheels due to insufficient offset, as it would either take 8.5j / 28et or 9j / 30et (the first is known configuration thanks to @Sam1 and the second is my best guesstimate based on another user running 255/45R18 on 18x9.0J ET+30mm without issues).
I would love to be wrong and have someone comment here (maybe with pics too) that they have that setup (255/45R19 on OEM wheels) and that it works fine but unless if that happens I'll probably order a set of ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus in 245/45R19 in the next couple of hours.

 

[dsgerbc]

And seems like anyone that ran 255/40R19 tires, didn't do so on the OEM wheels and that probably it wouldn't work on the OEM wheels due to insufficient offset,

255-wide tires are completely fine with a stock offset. Even 265-wide tires of appropriate diameter should be fine.
People go for lower offsets for looks.

 

[superflyrolla]

First off, I think you're mixing up 255/40R19 and 255/45R19 in the same post.

Agree with dsgerbc. The 255/40R19 will fit the OEM 19" wheel and car fine. Quick search, 3rd post for confirmation:

Tire Fitment 255/35R19 on 19" sport wheels - M3

Hi there, would anyone be concerned to run 255/35R19 tires on the 19" sport wheels? Besides the diameter being .4" smaller, would the sidewalls be too low and may cause issues? There's a graph of the allowable for 235/40R19 tires alternatives. Green being acceptable:

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Atraf]

First off, I think you're mixing up 255/40R19 and 255/45R19 in the same post.

Agree with dsgerbc. The 255/40R19 will fit the OEM 19" wheel and car fine. Quick search, 3rd post for confirmation:

Tire Fitment 255/35R19 on 19" sport wheels - M3

Hi there, would anyone be concerned to run 255/35R19 tires on the 19" sport wheels? Besides the diameter being .4" smaller, would the sidewalls be too low and may cause issues? There's a graph of the allowable for 235/40R19 tires alternatives. Green being acceptable:

teslamotorsclub.com

I got to stop doing that haha, sorry!
Yes, 100%, definitely mixed it up there, my post almost sounds like a failed reading of a Dr. Seuss book, oops

From the post you linked, 255/40R19 is not in green, 245/40R19 is in green, and yet @Ari00 mentions that it worked fine for him, that is an awesome find! Thank you!

255-wide tires are completely fine with a stock offset. Even 265-wide tires of appropriate diameter should be fine.
People go for lower offsets for looks.

I honestly thought that for some size tires you got to get more offset as to move the front upper knuckle slight towards the side of the tire as to get enough clearance, I have seen a picture of the clearance that 255/45R18 on 18x9.0 et+30 have and just assumed that if it was et+40 like OEM, that it would touch.
I am amazed that 255/40R19 works without altered offset (via different wheel or spacers) and I almost can't believe that 265/40R19 would work at all, that upper knuckle is just so close to the tire.

This does put me at ease regarding 245/40R19 but I am very much starting to lean towards 255/40R19, maybe @Ari00 (or someone else?) could chime in with their experience of 255/40R19?

 

[ShaolinEV]

255-wide tires are completely fine with a stock offset. Even 265-wide tires of appropriate diameter should be fine.
People go for lower offsets for looks.

I have been running 255 40/18 for approx. 30,000 miles with coil over, slightly lower and switched to 265 40/18 since January. No problem at all.

 

[tm1v2]

I have been running 255 40/18 for approx. 30,000 miles with coil over, slightly lower and switched to 265 40/18 since January. No problem at all.

@ShaolinEV What wheels or width + offset? How much camber are you running? (I think those questions are needed to fully understand the example of your fitment.)