Out of warranty concerns about Tesla

[glhs272]

I guess I should have said I know about the warranty and I'm weighing that option as well.

I love the car, not loving Tesla Motors anymore.


I think you are over-worrying about the warranty. Tesla has gone on record that the mileage will not control the initial warranty, but the time will.......4 years! the documentation is somewhere on this blog, but I can't reference it for you. I suggest you go in to your service center and talk to the Service manager about the 4 year....sans miles..... warranty commitment. Suggest you also lighten up on DIY stuff until the 4 years are up.................lots will change by then:wink::smile:

This is the first I have heard of about this 4 year sans mileage warranty. I will be happy if that is the case. If true that would take a lot of the pressure off... But that would be awkward for the people who did buy the extended warranty. This may be one of those "unwritten" deals where they just fix things as "goodwill". I would like to know more about this....

 

[Cerie]

8 years isn't really that long to keep a car. I had my Lexus for 15 years and my F-150 for 10 (and still going). Some people are inclined to trade every few years. But that's not everyone.

Oh I'm not trading. But I can see handing it off to my husband after 5 years so I can build myself another one. Now that I have my car and have had an experience with a loaner, there are so many things I would change the second time around. I've been avoiding the Design Studio lately lest I accidentally buy another one :biggrin:

 

[islandbayy]

I guess I should have said I know about the warranty and I'm weighing that option as well.

I love the car, not loving Tesla Motors anymore.


I think you are over-worrying about the warranty. Tesla has gone on record that the mileage will not control the initial warranty, but the time will.......4 years! the documentation is somewhere on this blog, but I can't reference it for you. I suggest you go in to your service center and talk to the Service manager about the 4 year....sans miles..... warranty commitment. Suggest you also lighten up on DIY stuff until the 4 years are up.................lots will change by then:wink::smile:

No, he is NOT over-worrying about the warranty, or servicing the car for that matter. I'm going to be hitting 50,000 on my MS60 by the end of 2014. Just hit 44,000 and that big 50,000 is coming up quick. For the number of problems I have had with my car, all be it small accept for battery failure, and the quirks that I am currently having, like getting the "Key not in vehicle" problem since DAY ONE with my car, and its becoming MORE Frequent with no fix in sight, and on top of that, Drive train clunk which never seems to go away no matter how many times I bring it in (Although, those in Norway seem to all be getting their drive trains replaced for the same exact issue), a replacement battery that is loosing range at a rate of 10x Faster then my original battery (and being told my replacement pack is "OK")
While I love the car, am one of Tesla's Biggest Fanboys, the endless issues are slowly moving me into the same, love the car, not loving tesla motors category.

To be 100% Honest, and, this is really going to be funny considering that Me, rdrcmatt, glhs272, and the famous Robert Montgomery, are all in South East Wisconsin (All of us accept glhs272 are in Milwaukee County, and NO, we are not conspiring against Tesla Motors), I 100% honestly would have Lemon Law'd my car out 3x over if I was still within the legal requirement of first year of ownership. If my battery had failed just a few weeks sooner, it WOULD have been done on the spot.

I hate to say it, as I know I've been becoming a broken record here too. I'm getting fed up with it. While I went into this knowing their would be quirks due to new car, new production, and early production, their were. And Tesla Dealt with those. But it's going beyond Quirks.
Also will say, the way it looks, the current service infrastructure that is in place is over-worked and under-staffed. On top of that, always needing to send the information to engineers to determine repair course is getting a bit old. While I highly respect the people at the Service Center, and they have always treated me awesome, and gone above and beyond the requirements of their jobs; at this point, it IS Tesla Corporate who is holding things back.

Example, my range that is declining at a rate of 10x faster then my original battery. The real only answer I can get is my pack is "OK". Thats what Engineering tells the service center, so thats what they tell me. "OK" doesnt cut it. If it was OK, then my range at 10,000 miles on this pack would not be LOWER then the range on my original pack at 34,000 miles, and no stop in sight of range loss. I ask for just print out or some sort of hard information, none. Now, of course, I have a 60kW car, so my warranty on the battery is only 125,000 miles or 8 years. I will have 125,000 miles in another 2 years tops. So of COURSE I'm going to be more concerned about the condition of the battery. If it was unlimited mileage, no big deal. in 8 years ill have half million miles on the darn thing with the increase of driving.

I'm also in the same boat as rdrcmatt. 2 things I asked before purchasing the car, can I service it myself, and can I upgrade my battery to the 85 after purchase. Sales person didnt know so asked management. Management said yes to both. Guess what (In Carlos Mencia De De De voice), I CANT! It is getting ridiculous!
I'm also in the boat of being not the richest person in the world. I'm probably in the lower end of the spectrum of income of Model S Owners. Car was advertised as High Reliability, Low maintenance. While I have only had the 1 situation where I could not drive the vehicle due to non-operation (Battery Failure), I have been to Tesla Service more times in the 1 1/2 years of ownership then I have every car that I've ever owned going in for a repair combined. I've owned a lot of cars. Only one I would rate less reliable was my Alfa Romeo 164. Electrical in that car was worse then ****. But could be "fixed" by hitting various components with a pall pene hammer (As recommended by the DEALER..... BTW Alfas are Notorious for crap electrical, or at least the 164 was...).


I'm Sorry for going off on a Rant, but it was much needed release for me. Especially after having to much trouble yesterday with the "key not in vehicle" and my doors not even opening with my new fob until a minute after I start trying all the while I'm holding my disabled son and my younger is trying to get inside while it's 10*F outside. That didn't happen just once, not twice, not even three times yesterday. It happened 5 times. this is daily for me now. I've taken to recording videos of key not in vehicle since it cant be reproduced. Although for every 1 time I record its usually 1 out of 6 times it happens as I am getting tired of filling my phone up with key not in vehicle recordings.

As for drivetrain clunk. I've been reporting that since month 3 or 4 of ownership. Things have been greased, clunk goes away, then comes back after a few days to a week. The last time it was in about 3 weeks ago, they installed Elon's Shims into the drivetrain. Got car back. No change in clunk. In fact, just 2 days later, at 11pm on a Saturday night, had a scare that almost sent me into a lake!
Driving. It was light snow out (Flurries, very powdery) a mildly slippery. Out of nowhere. I get 4 errors. Forgot exact errors off the top of my head, but they were along the lines of "Traction Control Disabled", "Stability Control Disabled" "ABS Needs Service" and one more about Steering. The vehicle basically became un-driveable while going down the road. It did feel like power steering was gone. Very hard to control. I finally got it up onto someones lawn to avoid going off the other side of the road, down the hill and into the lake as it didnt feel like brakes were doing much of anything. Can you say NOT VERY FREAKING HAPPY. Thought maybe software glitch. Restarted both screens. Errors persisted. After about 5-10 minutes of sitting their, errors magically disappeared and car went back to "normal". Checked all 4 tires and wheels (peeked behind to make sure I did not have a foreign object stuck somewhere in my drivetrain).
Still waiting 2 1/2 weeks later to hear what engineering is deciding to do.
I honestly, would like a replacement car. Not trying to scam Tesla out of getting a free upgrade or anything. I just want something that I know will be safe and more reliable. I've been in and got to have lots of time with newer (VIN's in the 50k + Range) cars, and the quality is 1,000% better then the early cars. I know getting a replacement is not going to happen. I'm not in financial position to sell mine as I would take too much of a hit after just 1 1/2 years of ownership.
I am going to continue. I am going to go as far as I don't believe I should be felling forced to purchase a extended warranty that is only going to last me a year, and on top of that, pay a deductible, just so a vast array of quirks and things that should not fail and keep failing can be fixed.
How many times should it take to fix water in tail lights? once? twice? three times? Maybe Four? Five times? I lost count at 5 times to remedy water in tail lights. Although, the last time they did it, it did last 8 months. Now it's back again. Water in chrome strip on trunk... moisture in headlights, no change, said it was normal.... I had water between the trunk glass and the top third brake light, it went away so I put off them replacing my trunk glass, and I really dont like the idea of breaking the factory seal on that. But now that water is coming back now that it getting really cold again.


I am really sorry for this rant. And it's not all directed at Frank. Just the opening statement. Frustration level has been reached, and I am very disappointed while typing this. I might expect the problems that are happening on a $10,000 Chevy Aveo, Could deal with them on a $20,000 car, but at this point, just..... disappointed.... $80,000 after dual chargers, jump seats and supercharging access.
I will probably loose favor after typing this, but my frustration level is at that point. Called ownership (and emailed ownership a couple times) because I wanted responses from Corporate on what can be done about the constant issues. Instead of getting corporate response, they literally just forwarded everything to the local service center despite my request not to, so I gave up with ownership.
And again, please don't think I'm blaming the two Service Centers that I have dealt with. Like I mentioned. At every occasion, they went above and beyond to help me. It is corporate and the way they have things setup that is getting in the way of making things 100% right. Too many people don't have the authority to make a decision, and have to forward it to Tesla HQ, or Engineering. How many Engineers does Tesla have? How much time in the day do they have to look into owners issues? Response turn around time...... I always treat those I deal with at the service center with the utmost respect, and treat them how I wish to be treated. I know they can only do so much, and applaud them for the work they can do and how they treat and respond to their customers.

I know Tesla is trying to do the right thing, as best they can as well. Such as what they are doing replacing the drive units of the Norway owners due to manufacturing faults before their is even a issue brought forth. They are trying... And Tesla does have a lot on their plate at this moment. But while they are trying, they do drop the ball. And when Tesla Drops the ball, it falls with the force of a wrecking ball.

I have been trying to hold off making my statements until things are resolved. I like to show the whole picture (Insert example of my battery pack failure. I documented the experience from being stuck on the side of the freeway all the way to the Valet dropping off my repaired car) from start to finish. I don't like being the "guy" that just complains about something and then never follows up. I want to give it all. While my experience dealing with the service center has so far been great, that Ball is dropping.

I will end my Frustration Rant with that.
I could continue for a few more pages, but I need to put the boys to bed now, and have a glass of Amaretto to calm down. I'm sure I will be getting a Tesla phone call tomorrow...



[EDIT] Thought I would add what Drive Train Clunk sounds like for those un-familiar. Camcorders microphone didn't pick it up the best, quite a bit louder in person. And correction, 44,000 miles on the car. 10,000 on new battery, editing post to reflect the correction. Given how spammed my personal email and my PM inbox on TMC is getting, It looks like I don't stand alone in my frustration, nor the issues I'm having.

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[stopcrazypp]

IIRC, some jurisdictions require the release of service manuals and diagnostic tools in order to prevent the manufacturer from maintaining a service monopoly. How does Tesla get around this?

Massachusetts is the only place I'm aware of that has such a law. Of course someone has to sue Tesla first.

 

[drsaab]

Wow. That's alot of problems. I agree the service is an unfair monopoly right now. I'm going to get a 55k+ vin car next week and coming from a unlimited miles mb CPO warranty where any repair is fully covered with no deductible. Hopefully you're right and the newer cars are refined. I'm a high miles driver too.

I would be pissed too with that many problems.

 

[eddie11228]

wow islandbayy, i'm upset just reading about your experience. not that i can contribute to a resolution for you, but i feel your pain, man. hopefully, it works out for you soon enough!

I've ordered a S85D with a late March delivery. Hoping they've ironed out all those "quirks" by now. Same for the new dual motors

 

[islandbayy]

wow islandbayy, i'm upset just reading about your experience. not that i can contribute to a resolution for you, but i feel your pain, man. hopefully, it works out for you soon enough!

I've ordered a S85D with a late March delivery. Hoping they've ironed out all those "quirks" by now. Same for the new dual motors

Off the top of my head, I've had 6 Model S Loaners. I'd need to review my YouTube videos to get exact count, as I review every one I get. Once thing I always made note of, was the improvements. Accept for the last one, which turned out to have just had a rough (but short) life as a loaner. And I can wholeheartedly say, that each and every one, each step of the way, they have brought quality up. Only thing that turned me off was the new Steering Wheels they have (last loaner I had). The damn cruise control stalk is too damn short my short stubby fingers cant reach it.... About 3/4 inch shorter then the original. I have not had the fortune to test a Dual Motor car yet as would I like to test out the autopilot.

 

[Red Sage]

islandbayy: Sorry for the issues you've had with your car. Your videos on YouTube are among the first I started watching earlier this year. I hope that Tesla Motors is able to make everything right for you in short order.

 

[Lloyd]

Off the top of my head, I've had 6 Model S Loaners. I'd need to review my YouTube videos to get exact count, as I review every one I get. Once thing I always made note of, was the improvements. Accept for the last one, which turned out to have just had a rough (but short) life as a loaner. And I can wholeheartedly say, that each and every one, each step of the way, they have brought quality up. Only thing that turned me off was the new Steering Wheels they have (last loaner I had). The damn cruise control stalk is too damn short my short stubby fingers cant reach it.... About 3/4 inch shorter then the original. I have not had the fortune to test a Dual Motor car yet as would I like to test out the autopilot.

Remember that if you like your loaner better, you can keep it! It will cost to upgrade, but perhaps some consideration is in order!

 

[Alysashley79]

@islandbayy. Just want to tell you that you aren't alone! I've had all the problems you had plus some. I'm also a high mileage driver. Just hit my one year anniversary two weeks ago and have 34k miles on my car. To this point service has been great about fixing or replacing things including my drive unit when it started making the "clunk" last April.

Many worry is in 15k miles. I'm not sure where someone got the 4 years from. NOPE it's definately only 50,000 miles and then we will all start have to pay for things that go wrong or live with some of the "quirks" of the car. I personally live in a state where the extended warranty isn't even an option so not sure what's going to happen.

i love my car. Just don't love all the times it's been to the service centers in the past year. Somehow spending almost 30+ days in and out for things and that's not counting all the times I just stopped in to pick up one of the FIVE UMCs that have crapped out on me! Cmon tesla fix the bloody issues vs coming out with a newer model that'll likely have another set of issues as well. Good grief!

 

[islandbayy]

Remember that if you like your loaner better, you can keep it! It will cost to upgrade, but perhaps some consideration is in order!

They all had features I dont like or want. For one, All had Pano. I hate Pano Roofs. I see too many problems with them (Not just Tesla's Pano's). Next, Air Shocks. Hate em. It's not a If, just When they go out and cost a fortune to repair. And the value given for mine as a trade.......... I'd get more on local craigslist.

- - - Updated - - -

@islandbayy. Just want to tell you that you aren't alone! I've had all the problems you had plus some. I'm also a high mileage driver. Just hit my one year anniversary two weeks ago and have 34k miles on my car. To this point service has been great about fixing or replacing things including my drive unit when it started making the "clunk" last April.

Many worry is in 15k miles. I'm not sure where someone got the 4 years from. NOPE it's definately only 50,000 miles and then we will all start have to pay for things that go wrong or live with some of the "quirks" of the car. I personally live in a state where the extended warranty isn't even an option so not sure what's going to happen.

i love my car. Just don't love all the times it's been to the service centers in the past year. Somehow spending almost 30+ days in and out for things and that's not counting all the times I just stopped in to pick up one of the FIVE UMCs that have crapped out on me! Cmon tesla fix the bloody issues vs coming out with a newer model that'll likely have another set of issues as well. Good grief!

You took the words right out of my mouth. And I completely forgot how many UMC's I've gone through! Service said I only went through 3, it's closer to 9. Not all of them seem to have been logged into the Tesla System. Same with number of fob replacements. I'm at 5 or 6, they say 2 or 3 (I forget which they said). Early days when things were just getting going, much communications problems, especially early on between service center and tesla. Things in that manor have changed significantly.
And almost forgot about when my wipers broke. I was out of town, made a appointment to bring it in a day or so after I got home... Then I saw weather report.... I promptly borrowed some tools, removed the frunk and fixed the wipers myself (Turns out I could have done it without removing the frunk, but I was still "new" to the car then). Good thing I fixed em as halfway home got nailed with a major thunder storm... Like I said, I could type a few more pages..

 

[apacheguy]

Wow. It's slightly concerning (but reassuring to me) that my early production Sig has had virtually none of these problems. It's concerning because one would think that reliability would be directly correlated to the production sequence - oldest cars would have the greatest amount of issues and newer cars would have all the kinks smoothed out.

Sure, my Sig has had its door handles replaced and most recently service replaced my front louvers. But I haven't been eating through UMCs or battery packs or drivetrains or master chargers. It's disappointing to see these reliability issues popping up in late production cars.

 

[bluenation]

reliability is still an issue with tesla. with the X aiming for soccer moms of america, this must get sorted out. They're not as forgiving as early adopter, male Tesla fans that put in $5000 deposit, sight unseen.

 

[islandbayy]

Wow. It's slightly concerning (but reassuring to me) that my early production Sig has had virtually none of these problems. It's concerning because one would think that reliability would be directly correlated to the production sequence - oldest cars would have the greatest amount of issues and newer cars would have all the kinks smoothed out.

Sure, my Sig has had its door handles replaced and most recently service replaced my front louvers. But I haven't been eating through UMCs or battery packs or drivetrains or master chargers. It's disappointing to see these reliability issues popping up in late production cars.

The ONE change I did with my UMC, that this one is lasting now since I believe it was February, is lower the amperage. When I first got the car, I'd always charge at max, so I'd have a full battery no matter when. I turned it down. Even down to 30 amps reduces heat build up significantly. Since I did this, I stopped eating through them. Dont get me wrong. if I find myself needing 40 amps, by all means I will charge at 40, just not on a daily basis. As long as it's done by 7 am for Time of Use Electric Im good.

 

[bonnie]

reliability is still an issue with tesla. with the X aiming for soccer moms of america, this must get sorted out. They're not as forgiving as early adopter, male Tesla fans that put in $5000 deposit, sight unseen.

Sidenote: Not all Model X reservation holders are as you describe. Nor would I classify all Model S owners as having an early adopter mentality. Or being male.

Sincerely,
Female Roadster owner, X Signature #2 that required a $40k deposit, sight unseen, no soccer balls in sight

 

[Alysashley79]

reliability is still an issue with tesla. with the X aiming for soccer moms of america, this must get sorted out. They're not as forgiving as early adopter, male Tesla fans that put in $5000 deposit, sight unseen.

You can probably tell from my screen name but like Bonnie I'm a female P85 owner! And a fanboy. Or fangirl!

 

[WarpedOne]

If it was OK, then my range at 10,000 miles on this pack would not be LOWER then the range on my original pack at 34,000 miles, and no stop in sight of range loss. I

That range is easy to fix ... just put a sticker over that display and write 321 on it. There, fixed.

The only somewhat real range measurement (and battery degradation) is to actually charge the battery to 100% and then drive under controlled conditions until car shuts down. And record the mileage and time. We already had this conversation and you and everybody else still obsesse about that meaningless estimated range.

 

[Matias]

Massachusetts is the only place I'm aware of that has such a law. Of course someone has to sue Tesla first.

Eu has the same.

 

[JST]

Post warranty service (and the complete lack of DIY support) are by far my biggest concerns with the car at this point.

I really can't imagine keeping it past the expiration of the warranty, unless something changes.

 

[jkliu47]

With the above mentioned multiple UMC failures, I assume the UMC's were being used for daily recharges. How about the HPWC's - have they had any unusual failure rates?

Even though I only have a single charger in my Model S, I may consider replacing my current UMC charging setup in my garage with a HPWC unit, especially at the new lower price. And relegate the UMC to my trunk for road trip use only.