The only issue I had with my HPWC is when tesla reduced the allowed amperage while they replaced defective fuses. Tesla service came to my house and swapped in the new fuses, and a few weeks later a software update restored ~60-80A charging. Otherwise no problems. My UMC happily sits in the back of my S.
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glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Islandbayy, As you can guess, I can sympathize. Rant fully justified. My car is not that much newer than yours, but luckily I haven't had nearly the problems your having and I am still worried about out of warranty service. I don't think you should be punished for being an "early adopter", it is on Tesla to make it right, period.
If I had your car, I too would be looking to dump it at this point. I can only suggest that if Tesla is willing to work with you on a trade, perhaps you could look the other way on a few features you don't necessarily want. I have had a loaner 85 that was mostly a stripper (just tech pkg and leather, nothing else) so perhaps you might find something more to your liking. And maybe because Tesla is still trying to unload some of their old version non-autopilot cars, they may be willing to work with you on a good deal. But, maybe not because you are at the mercy of Tesla corporate. Either way, the whole idea of this conversation is ridiculous and shouldn't be happening.
I, like you probably represent the lower end of the income spectrum on Model S owners. But that is irrelevant. We Tesla customers are not "whales" to be bled dry of our money. We purchased these cars with the intention of having reliable transportation for a reasonable life of the car. That is over 100K miles in my book. To be having the as many issues as Islandbayy at this point is a failure of Tesla. And it's on Tesla to rectify.
When it comes to these worries about out of warranty Tesla's, it is purely the result of lack of transparency and communication from Tesla. It can be rectified by Tesla in a second. Like the extended drive unit warranty, the extended free internet, and etc. I certainly hope Tesla will come through on this, not just for my personal benefit, but for Tesla. They need to maintain a sterling reputation as a car company if they want exist in the future. They need absolute top class service and support if they want to remain dealer (and independent shop) free.
If I had your car, I too would be looking to dump it at this point. I can only suggest that if Tesla is willing to work with you on a trade, perhaps you could look the other way on a few features you don't necessarily want. I have had a loaner 85 that was mostly a stripper (just tech pkg and leather, nothing else) so perhaps you might find something more to your liking. And maybe because Tesla is still trying to unload some of their old version non-autopilot cars, they may be willing to work with you on a good deal. But, maybe not because you are at the mercy of Tesla corporate. Either way, the whole idea of this conversation is ridiculous and shouldn't be happening.
I, like you probably represent the lower end of the income spectrum on Model S owners. But that is irrelevant. We Tesla customers are not "whales" to be bled dry of our money. We purchased these cars with the intention of having reliable transportation for a reasonable life of the car. That is over 100K miles in my book. To be having the as many issues as Islandbayy at this point is a failure of Tesla. And it's on Tesla to rectify.
When it comes to these worries about out of warranty Tesla's, it is purely the result of lack of transparency and communication from Tesla. It can be rectified by Tesla in a second. Like the extended drive unit warranty, the extended free internet, and etc. I certainly hope Tesla will come through on this, not just for my personal benefit, but for Tesla. They need to maintain a sterling reputation as a car company if they want exist in the future. They need absolute top class service and support if they want to remain dealer (and independent shop) free.
I know you just said you can't reference it, but can you clarify?
You say the info is on "this blog".
This particular section of the site is a forum. This site also hosts a blog, but it's not an official source for Tesla information.
There is an official Tesla blog, but it's at teslamotors.com.
Can you narrow down where you believed you saw this info?
There has been several warranty clarifications by Tesla over the past year or two (primarily dealing with battery & drivetrain), but I've NEVER seen anything to suggest the bumper-to-bumper 4yr/50K mile warranty had been modified.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
WarpedOne, I am not sure where you are coming from on this. Does your Model S show decreasing range where it in fact does not have decreasing range? Islandbayy seems to be experiencing actual decreasing range, not just on the "guess-o-meter" but based on actual driving.
I also generally share some of rdrcrmatt's concerns on this. I do much of my own vehicle maintenance (just replaced the shocks in the struts on my ICE SUV last week), am in IT, and understand proper high-voltage safety procedures (I installed my own HPWC as well).
I am putting mileage on my car at the rate of 2k miles / month. I'll be out of warranty in June of next year, after just over 2 years of ownership.
While Tesla service has gone above and beyond, a number of the repairs they have made feel like they would be darn expensive if I had to pay for them out of pocket. For instance the drive unit. I had it replaced twice: the first time for the known "droning sound". the second time for a brief fault that registered once on the console momentarily. The latter may have been simply a loose connector according to the service center. What would that have cost me?
The modular nature of the car also makes it appear that component-level repair is not done much. If a charger fails, that's going to likely be an entire swap out, even if it's an individual capacitor inside that failed. (As an aside, I really need to get my HPWC on a 100A circuit and exercise that second charger some more...)
I don't want to think about what happens if a $90 contactor inside my $40K battery pack fails...
So I'm among those who would like to see at least basic maintenance and repair info provided
I am putting mileage on my car at the rate of 2k miles / month. I'll be out of warranty in June of next year, after just over 2 years of ownership.
While Tesla service has gone above and beyond, a number of the repairs they have made feel like they would be darn expensive if I had to pay for them out of pocket. For instance the drive unit. I had it replaced twice: the first time for the known "droning sound". the second time for a brief fault that registered once on the console momentarily. The latter may have been simply a loose connector according to the service center. What would that have cost me?
The modular nature of the car also makes it appear that component-level repair is not done much. If a charger fails, that's going to likely be an entire swap out, even if it's an individual capacitor inside that failed. (As an aside, I really need to get my HPWC on a 100A circuit and exercise that second charger some more...)
I don't want to think about what happens if a $90 contactor inside my $40K battery pack fails...
So I'm among those who would like to see at least basic maintenance and repair info provided
islandbayy
Active Member
Done and done, and it is lower then my original pack. I also did a charge from "Vehicle is Shutting Down" to 100%, and the car replenished only 53kW. (Long story about that, basically got home late at night with 2 miles rated remaining. While unloading car, left heat and seat heater on (habit as it turns off when door is shut). Didnt shut door all the way by accident, and wasn't plugged in so it brought it fairly low (First time I've done this on this pack...). Accel was limited to 30kw when I creeped it up to my garage, so that was at the shut down point. Plugged in. 53kW replenished. Long story short, I drive enough, and test enough to know what is real and perceived range loss.
This means nothing except when done under controlled and repeatable conditions.
We people are prone to mistakes (confirmation bias comes to mind), double so when there is some outside thing that tries to convince us into some idea.
Decreasing number on that GOM is such an outside thing and a very powerful one.
Yes, batteries degrade. To what extent exactly one particular battery degraded can only be measured, not calculated, not experienced "on actual driving".
We are not talking about half of available range lost but about a few hundreds of a whole. With changes in FW and HW. With changes in weather, tires and roads. With aging of other parts of the drive train and suspension. With changes in driving style etc.
Yes, battery did degrade. It is just that noone can tell how much exactly and how much it will degrade in next week, month, year.
You want something better than tesla's words 'It is OK'? Go measure it and write down the numbers. Repeat in a year under exact conditions.
islandbayy
Active Member
And incidentally, I really think that for a car of this price and category the warranty should have been 7 yrs/100K miles.
Especially if, as Elon has mentioned, it's simpler design/construction as compared to an ICE represents less likelihood of failure. Many lesser cars already have such a warranty today.
Especially if, as Elon has mentioned, it's simpler design/construction as compared to an ICE represents less likelihood of failure. Many lesser cars already have such a warranty today.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Not to side track this thread, but shouldn't we be able to get a good idea of battery capacity (and therefore range) outside of a laboratory like environment? For example, the onboard shunt. It will measure how much energy is leaving the battery (at least while the car is in drive). In this picture I took a road trip where I supercharged the car to charge complete, immediately pulled off the charger and drove the car to almost empty. I was able to pull 54kWh out of the battery and could have pulled more. So next time I do that, regardless of temperature or road conditions, if I was not able to pull 54 kWh, but say 50 kWh that would be indicative of degradation no?
islandbayy
Active Member
Well, the drive unit and battery pack you won't have to worry about for 8 years at least. That's worth something, IMO.
Also, efficiency. If you drive with a lead foot you will be able to pull less kWh out of the pack.
The tinfoil hat part of me wonders about the warranty extension on the drivetrains. Don't get me wrong--I'm happy about it, and I appreciate the peace of mind. But extending the warranties on those components also buys Tesla some time in dealing with a crush of out of warranty owners (at least to that big, expensive, and potentially failure prone part). The last thing you'd want as you were aggressively expanding your operations is for the bad PR from a bunch of out-of-warranty early adopters hit with huge bills for driveline replacements...and no other service option.
OK, got to go. I think they are tapping my phone.
Good point... I originally used the charger example because that wasn't specifically covered with the warranty extensions, but that last pack contactor example would have been.
I was thinking of examples where a relatively modest component failure could have large cost implications if only the larger module can be replaced.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Sure. But in this example I am starting from a hot battery (after driving from a full range charge at home to the supercharger, supercharging to maintain or increase temperature) and only considering the "hot battery" portion of the drive. I am not saying this is going to be a perfect ultra precise measurement, but if we are starting see that we can never get kWh out of the pack anymore, whatever you call it, that is range degradation.
Brass Guy
Active Member
I have a lot in common with several of you here too: stretched to buy the car, have done most of my own repair in the past, have a decent understanding and healthy respect for the electric systems, some IT experience, drive about 2000 mi/month. It makes me very nervous wondering if Tesla will sell me a strut, tie rod, wiper motor, vent louver... Will Tesla diagnose and send me what they discover? I still have about a year left on mine though at 30k miles.
I'm still not planning on purchasing the Extended Service Agreement. My reasoning is that it's $4k, the most expensive parts of the car are now covered 8 years, only extends another 50k miles (about 2 years) and from what I hear there's a deductible for each repair under the agreement anyway. Some reason $200 comes to mind, but I don't know were I got that from.
I've had probably a fair share of repairs. I know Tesla will sell me a UMC if I need it, but what about a trunk/frunk latch? (My trunk latch did break.) That is definitely a DIY project.
I'm still not planning on purchasing the Extended Service Agreement. My reasoning is that it's $4k, the most expensive parts of the car are now covered 8 years, only extends another 50k miles (about 2 years) and from what I hear there's a deductible for each repair under the agreement anyway. Some reason $200 comes to mind, but I don't know were I got that from.
I've had probably a fair share of repairs. I know Tesla will sell me a UMC if I need it, but what about a trunk/frunk latch? (My trunk latch did break.) That is definitely a DIY project.
Right, I agree. IIRC, someone received an invoice totaling $3300 for a failed onboard charger. That is pretty outrageous, especially if it was some simple component failure within the charging unit.
I recall that too.
I had the solenoid contacts fail in my Toyota 4Runner starter. A new starter would have been a couple hundred bucks. I bought the contact kit for $15 and installed them myself.
I wonder if 3rd party component-level repair services are gonna spring up at soonish now that we are going to start seeing out of warranty cars on the streets...
islandbayy
Active Member
Only problem with that, is if the item had thrown a fault code, you will need Tesla's Proprietary software to reset codes.
