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Out of Warranty Drive Unit Replacement and Cost
- Thread starter Pres_Res
- Start date
I would start with with making an offer roughly in the middle.
Offer to pay $6K assuming you get a 4year warranty on the new unit. And go from there.
-Note car prices are higher lately so its worth putting "some money" into a car you like and is generally OK.
Benefit to them
If they accept something near your offer then they will save on the labor & hassle of
-uninstalling replacement unit
-reinstalling old unit (will they test it to ensure they have not damaged it more?)
Q. Plus can they resell the replacement unit as new if its already been installed and tested and uninstalled?
Like you stated in the thread
-warranty end date was not CLEARLY specified (at sale or at start of current service). Appears as though the tech thought it was also under warranty based upon them replacing the unit without permission. i.e. they made a slight mistake too.
-you did not authorize the 9K work order
Good Luck.
Offer to pay $6K assuming you get a 4year warranty on the new unit. And go from there.
-Note car prices are higher lately so its worth putting "some money" into a car you like and is generally OK.
Benefit to them
If they accept something near your offer then they will save on the labor & hassle of
-uninstalling replacement unit
-reinstalling old unit (will they test it to ensure they have not damaged it more?)
Q. Plus can they resell the replacement unit as new if its already been installed and tested and uninstalled?
Like you stated in the thread
-warranty end date was not CLEARLY specified (at sale or at start of current service). Appears as though the tech thought it was also under warranty based upon them replacing the unit without permission. i.e. they made a slight mistake too.
-you did not authorize the 9K work order
Good Luck.
While I love my Tesla, the brutal reality is, once the owners are out of warranty, those expensive parts can fail without warning and just abruptly just like in my case where the RDU at 55k miles had to be replaced. Unless Tesla figures out a way to repurpose those big parts and bring the cost down for refurbishing them, it is not wise to keep the cars beyond the warranty period. The risk is too much, especially we're not talking about a car that you can take to any mechanic to get it fixed with so many 3rd party making its parts. Ideally one should sell it in the last year with a little bit warranty left on the car and get a new one.
Yes, I'm not rushing to get the car out. I told the SC person that I would need to speak to someone at HQ and ask them to prove that they did disclose the original sale date of January 2013 at the time of selling the car to me as none of my delivery documents have any mention about warranty expiring in January 2021. I also requested him to to speak to the SC Manager and adjust/reduce the bill as much as they can as I don't have $8k to shelve out just like that. I will wait this out for few more days which will allow me to arrange for the funds. It sucks. With a new 4y/50k warranty, I'd love to keep it for another few years, especially given the insane gas prices in CA (and I have free supercharging for life), but the risk is too much to keep it with expired warranty on the battery pack. I don't know if there is a 3rd party insurance company (carshield) that sells coverage for such mechanical/electrical failures and if it's cost-effective, and if I can get a coverage for the battery pack, I would certainly keep the car for 4 more years. Hey, it has only 55k miles, it would be a shame to sell such a beautiful car for a huge loss.
What difference does it make if they told you the original sale date or not? You knew you were buying a used car correct? That means you knew that the warranty had started sometime before you bought it. If you were concerned about how much warranty you would have you should have asked them.
With it being a 2012 it would make sense that it was originally sold/put in service in 2012 or 2013.
Big difference: if the car was sold in Nov or Dec 2013, I would still be under warranty and wouldn't have to spend $8k+ now. I knew I was buying a CPO which had only 3500 miles. Since I bought it in Dec 2015, I assumed I have warranty until 2013 for the RDU/battery pack. I didn't know which month in 2013 it was sold to the first owner as the invoice says 'demo/service/used vehicle'. It was assembled in 2012 and sold in 2013, one of the initial batches of Model Ss that were rolled out.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with the “nobody told me when the warranty expired when I bought the car” complaint. This was really your responsibility to know and understand, not anyone else’s. The car has a sticker with a build month/year in the drivers door jamb. Early Model S copies were put in customers’ hands shortly after they rolled off the line.
Stick with the “you did at least $7500 of work to my car that I did not authorize” line. As I said originally, your thinking that you got a fresh 8 year DU/battery warranty until 2023 with the CPO was not a reasonable expectation on your part.
Stick with the “you did at least $7500 of work to my car that I did not authorize” line. As I said originally, your thinking that you got a fresh 8 year DU/battery warranty until 2023 with the CPO was not a reasonable expectation on your part.
dark cloud
Active Member
By the way, which update was that you updated to that coincidentally appeared just before the drive unit gave error codes?
I wish I noted that down. As soon as I got into the car, the screen displayed a message that an update was installed and a message about 3G modem getting unsupported in Feb 2022 and I can get LTE upgrade for $200 plus taxes. I just pressed OK like I always do and within seconds all the errors/warnings showed up one after the other. I've attached those warning messages. Next day Tesla's advanced tech team remotely tried to install a fix which failed and then I towed the car to SC. Right now, the Tesla app shows Version 2020.48.37.8. I don't know what they did at SC in the last 3 weeks.
Attachments
I understand. I take responsibility of not getting in writing about the warranty for RDU/Battery pack. Since the car had only 3500 miles in Dec 2015 when I bought it and the invoice stated that 'showroom/service/used car', I assumed that it was a demo car and didn't know there was a previous owner who bought it in January 2013. Had I known that I have only 5 years left on the RDU/battery pack irrespective of the very low miles, I would not have bought it and would've bought something that was relatively new like a year old. Of all the CPOs in the inventory, this had the lowest miles of 3500. For a 3 year old car with only that miles, I assumed it was a showroom/demo car. Anyways, I learned a very expensive lesson.
I should've taken a screenshot of 'service complete' and downloaded the invoice for $9k on Tuesday this week instead of reacting and complaining to them about why they did the work without authorization. As I was talking to them, they silently removed the invoice, removed the estimate of $2300 that I originally authorized on Monday, and changed the status of the car back to 'In Service' with a 'corrected estimate of $9k' which was subsequently reduced / adjusted to $8200 on Wed evening after the SC spoke to me again. They already told me they can put the old RDU back if I want and it would be my responsibility to tow it out of SC. The only way to prove that they went ahead with the work and replaced the RDU without my authorization is to physically access the car and drive it, which is not possible as it's in their possession now.
I will try to arrange for the funds and get the car out in the next couple of days. It will have the 4 year 50k warranty on the new RDU, but I would be driving it with a ticking bomb of battery pack which could fail without any warning like the RDU did. I'm not ready to spend tens of thousands of dollars again on it. I will sell it in the coming weeks.
Well I understand my rants may be very annoying to you all. I apologize.
Thank you all for your feedback/comments/suggestions. Appreciate it. I must say that I enjoyed every bit of my ownership of my Tesla Model S P85 in my 5 years and 11 months of ownership and 52k miles on it. Till date I continue to get compliments.
Don't apologise for your rant, perfectly understandable and this is also what this forum is for: share experience, rants, vent... and get support from fellow owners to the best they can.
From your story, it feels like you are doing the right thing to sell it once it's fixed. It is absolutely true that older S outside warranty have a risk of battery and DU failure, with costly repair. It's all a matter or doing the math & what you can afford to spend on a car.
Some have spent the money on new battery and all things considered, feel it is better than buying a new one. Also because of the "soft" value of the car (eg early adopters car...) it makes sens to keep maintaining it and repair when needed.
Personaly, I'm closing in on the end of the warranty and have an excel file, where I projected for new battery & DU within the 2 years after the warranty ends. Compared to the projection of reselling it and buying a Y, I come at the same TCO by 2026.
Some would say I'm crazy and should buy a new Y with all new tech, but I'm quite found of my S. It also represent that I was part of those believers. Not to mention my mother in law would kill me: she loves it even more than I do
(*) I don't want to buy a new S, Y would be more than enough.
dark cloud
Active Member
Nice cars can get expensive. Just posting this to try and make you feel better, you (or anyone else) could have bought a used BMW (or Porsche etc.) and have the tranny blow up and been in the same situation. Amazing how closely this resembles your situation. This is from bimmerforum:
Hi I'm new here, and have a problem w/ my transmission. I have a 2008 BMW 535i w/ 100k miles, new twin turbo replaced at 80k through BMW/dealer warranty. My transmission goes into fail-safe mode in high gears (when trying to go fast on the highway, basically gunning it), otherwise it's been driveable if I don't overdo it. So, my mechanic discovered the problem in the diagnostic codes and warned me about this happening. Unfortunately, he doesn't do transmission work, and I made the mistake of taking it to my local AAMCO. They took it apart and showed me that those clutches were burnt out, scratched, burnt fluid, and also told me that the valve body is bad. They want $7,300 to rebuild my transmission with the new valve body. I told them that's ridiculous and to put my transmission back together. They wouldn't budge on the price, and acted like they were doing me a favor at that price. They also told me the VB Solenoids can't be replaced because they can't be purchased individually which is a lie (well my mechanic said you can buy them in a pack). I asked them how do they know my VB is bad, did they run any diagnostics on it, they beat around the bush and basically didn't. I asked them how much to just do the clutches, seals/rings, etc only w/out the VB, and they said $3,300 but will not provide any warranty. Again, I declined, and told them to put the transmission back together. The dianostic cost of taking transmission apart and re-assembling it is $695, so now i'm out that $$. All the places I've called, i can't find a rebuilt one to purchase, they will only rebuild mine. The lowest price I found is in Georgia (I'm in Florida) for $2,800, then my mechanic would charge $1200 to install it and program, plus $250 shipping for the transmission. They would give me a 12-month warranty, but i'm not gonna do that cause I don't want a warranty from some shop in Georgia. I called another local transmission place and they want $4,995 to rebuild mine which includes the valve body w/ a 18month warranty. I can't seem to find any locallly yet that can rebuild mine for $3000-4000 (including the valve body) and provide a decent warranty. I'm really dissapointed that AAMCO tried to rip me off, and hoping they put my transmission back together properly. I don't know what to do at this point which is why I'm seeking help/advice in this forum. I will make more calls around locally (calling the dealer on Monday too) and see what other shops can do for me. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
dark cloud
Active Member
Okay well most of the MCU1 fleet is on that update, myself included, so if that is the one you got at that time I guess it didn't cause the rearend to blow up
I keep wondering though, in a conspiracy sense, especially after the infamous battery-gate update, where a software update included a new safeguard and nerfed many owners' battery capacity, can a new update's code check some sensor in the driveunits and throw a new error code where the car might not have before? Maybe Tesla is attempting to have the unit "pack it in" before more damage occurs, which saves themselves rebuild efforts in order to re-sell the unit as a refurb?
As we all know, if it is slightly defective they simply pull the whole unit and reinstall someone elses/a refurb one. AFAIK, the aren't installing new ones. (?)The better the condition of the damaged unit the more profit in the exchange of course.
What do you guys think? Am i being a little too cynical? Maybe @ajbessinger can comment?
ajbessinger
Owner of QC Charge #2 (Portland OR)
There aren't any actual "liquid detection" sensors of any kind in the drive unit, so the only time than any errors begin to occur is when the coolant starts to come into contact with the inverter electronics. Obviously water based coolants are conductive, so it can create shorts between connections that shouldn't exist, and can also create leakage paths to ground for the high voltage system if it gets bad enough (hence why the car eventually won't start at all).Okay well most of the MCU1 fleet is on that update, myself included, so if that is the one you got at that time I guess it didn't cause the rearend to blow up
I keep wondering though, in a conspiracy sense, especially after the infamous battery-gate update, where a software update included a new safeguard and nerfed many owners' battery capacity, can a new update's code check some sensor in the driveunits and throw a new error code where the car might not have before? Maybe Tesla is attempting to have the unit "pack it in" before more damage occurs, which saves themselves rebuild efforts in order to re-sell the unit as a refurb?
As we all know, if it is slightly defective they simply pull the whole unit and reinstall someone elses/a refurb one. AFAIK, the aren't installing new ones. (?)The better the condition of the damaged unit the more profit in the exchange of course.
What do you guys think? Am i being a little too cynical? Maybe @ajbessinger can comment?
That's why it is imperative that anyone who owns an LDU equipped car should visually inspect the rotor speed sensor for the presence of liquid at least once a year, especially if you are out of warranty! If you catch a leak early enough, it can still be repaired at much less cost than a whole drive unit replacement.
Edit: added some pictures of motor and inverter damage caused by a severe coolant leak for "dramatic effect". Note that the coolant has turned brown due to mixing with rust that has formed on the rotor and steel bars in the windings.
Last edited:
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Have there been revisions in later versions of the LDU that make this less likely?
ajbessinger
Owner of QC Charge #2 (Portland OR)
Based on my experience, I would actually say that that the later versions are actually MORE prone to leakage than earlier ones, as they use a single lip seal instead of a triple lip seal. Just about a month ago we installed our "storm drain" kit on a brand new LDU (in a RAV4 EV actually, which yes, does use an LDU with a few small modifications from Model S), and it still was using the same inferior single lip seal that we've been seeing used in LDUs since 2017.
Edit: I suppose there's a small chance that the Model S version of the LDU might have some changes that the RAV4 version doesn't have, but I certainly wouldn't bet money on it...
You're not being too cynical. It's hard for me to believe that the RDU just failed magically with no warnings/problems. The car was just running fine with no issues whatsoever. I only use it for my daily commute of 40 miles round trip to work and that's why I have put in only 52k in 6 years. Especially I have put only 3-4k since March 2020 as I have been working from home. Never abused it; never drove in any extreme conditions or terrain, always garaged, single driver, and all scheduled services are done in a timely manner. Parked on Friday evening. Went back to drive it on Sunday evening; saw the update notification, and then boom... car was not drivable with all electronics on. Unlike the Bimmer story above which had 100k plus miles, it's difficult to accept the fact that RDU could just fail just like that with only 3rd of mileage of what it was warranted by Tesla.Okay well most of the MCU1 fleet is on that update, myself included, so if that is the one you got at that time I guess it didn't cause the rearend to blow up
I keep wondering though, in a conspiracy sense, especially after the infamous battery-gate update, where a software update included a new safeguard and nerfed many owners' battery capacity, can a new update's code check some sensor in the driveunits and throw a new error code where the car might not have before? Maybe Tesla is attempting to have the unit "pack it in" before more damage occurs, which saves themselves rebuild efforts in order to re-sell the unit as a refurb?
As we all know, if it is slightly defective they simply pull the whole unit and reinstall someone elses/a refurb one. AFAIK, the aren't installing new ones. (?)The better the condition of the damaged unit the more profit in the exchange of course.
What do you guys think? Am i being a little too cynical? Maybe @ajbessinger can comment?
I owned ICE cars before and had spent money on a lot of mechanical failures; but in all those instances, cars had trouble, warnings, noises, etc. and had close to 100k miles. Never once I was in a situation where the car was just running fine and suddenly refused to start with a major breakdown like this.
I strongly believe that Tesla is covering up QC issues on the cars and is not standing by what they make and pushing the costs to customers.