Out of Warranty Drive Unit Replacement and Cost

[brainhouston]

"ASY,DRIVE,UNIT,3.0- 150,REAR SMALL, REMAN(1056855-00-G)"

Thats a small Drive unit, which non-P awd cars have...
Its rare this goes bad...
Thanks for a data point!

 

[geordi]

Which unit do the RWD cars have?

 

[howardc64]

Which unit do the RWD cars have?

My understanding is all 2012-2020 RWD and Performance Dual Motors have the leak prone Large Drive Unit (LDU). Currently 4 PNs

ASY,P-TRAIN,BASE, LARGE DU. 1002633-00-T
ASY,P-TRAIN,SPORT, LARGE DU. 1002633-01-T
ASY,P-TRAIN,RMN,MDLS,BASE,CMC,HS,FA2+ 1025276-00-Q
ASY,P-TRAIN,REMAN, SPORT, LARGE DU 1025598-00-T

2 PN for Perf and Base, 2 PN for New and Raman
-T -Q is Revision number. Prior installed PNs would have lower letters.

So there is a lot of units in the field. I'm guessing nearly 100k out of warranty (2012-14) worldwide and probably 3-4x (or higher) under warranty. If someone wants to pull all Model S sales through 2020 and guesstimate all RWD+P*Ds (maybe at least 50% of total sales if not higher) then can get a projection of how many are in the field.

 

[geordi]

Well.... That's disappointing. I was hoping mine wouldn't have that potential issue, especially as I'm planning to drive the wheels off of it.

I do feel like the power usage (wh/mi) has been higher in the last few months than when I first got the car, but perhaps that is due more to the cooler weather than anything else. I'm not running the AC compressor so that SHOULD be saving some power, but my average is still closer or over 400 at 70mph on the highway. I'm planning to replace the wheel bearings soon, and hopefully that will show the source of the excess drag I feel like I'm having.

 

[DownWithEdison]

This is an old thread but I just called Gruber for a replacement of the rear drive unit on a 2014 P85D and the esitamte was $7500 to source a used one and install it. Tesla service is at $4k - $6k. Just FYI. My rear unit failed 6 weeks out of warranty

 

[brainhouston]

This is an old thread but I just called Gruber for a replacement of the rear drive unit on a 2014 P85D and the esitamte was $7500 to source a used one and install it. Tesla service is at $4k - $6k. Just FYI. My rear unit failed 6 weeks out of warranty

Seems heavily overpriced at Gruber...
LDUs are $3k+ on eBay. Labor should be easy n quick with right tools.
Used are probably a 50/50 gamble, better to rebuild your own i think (@howardc64 got all the info )

 

[MP3Mike]

Used are probably a 50/50 gamble, better to rebuild your own i think (@howardc64 got all the info )

At $4-6k you are better off having Tesla do it so you get the 4-year/50k mile warranty. (I think the refurb of a drive unit costs $3-4k at third-party sites not counting remove and reinstall costs.)

 

[brainhouston]

At $4-6k you are better off having Tesla do it so you get the 4-year/50k mile warranty. (I think the refurb of a drive unit costs $3-4k at third-party sites not counting remove and reinstall costs.)

they actually give u that much warranty?? def no brainer then
i meant for DIYers, if u know how to wrench, rebuild your own is most cost effective n peace of mind

 

[MP3Mike]

i meant for DIYers, if u know how to wrench, rebuild your own is most cost effective n peace of mind

I think it is very difficult to get the necessary seals and bearings. (And they aren't cheap when you can find them.)

 

[buckets0fun]

This is an old thread but I just called Gruber for a replacement of the rear drive unit on a 2014 P85D and the esitamte was $7500 to source a used one and install it. Tesla service is at $4k - $6k. Just FYI. My rear unit failed 6 weeks out of warranty

Brave for anyone to use them after the 2 massive fires and the litany of OHSA violations present in most of their YouTube videos.

 

[howardc64]

I think it is very difficult to get the necessary seals and bearings. (And they aren't cheap when you can find them.)

I've figured this out.

• Seal available from Aliexpress for about $30+ for 2 shipped. Did a bunch of seal design and material studies. There aren't too many design parameters. Myself and another member has 2k+ miles on these seal so far. Recent Tesla seals don't seem to perform very well given the failure rates we've seen. There are people that don't trust aliexpress seals of course (myself included haha) and I've been trying to source a seal from the west without success yet. But as noted, not that many design parameters, Tesla's own seal seems pretty poor and no magic perfect seal exist that last forever...
• Bearings need to come from EU. There are probably trade law controls for US to make it impossible to get here. < $300 total for 2 rotor bearing and 2 bearings on the highest speed shaft.

However

• Teslas are a pain to put up on jack stands if no lift of any kind
• Need to lower 500lb+ LDU+subframe. Ideally requiring a scissor lift cart
• do need to mess with deadly HV (first time to HV mechanic usually pause before putting their socket on the inverter B+ B- connector)
• Coolant PTFE seal installation is quite a bit trickier than standard rubber type seals
• Gear bearing install might be tricky for proper alignment. LDU has a lot of weight to orient around for the ideal installation position

Anyway, parts prices and accessibility aren't bad. Tooling and skillset is fairly advanced.

Most non DIYer and not too advanced DIYer have little choice but to go to Tesla SC. You get a warranty. I see threads showing < 2 years before replacements. Not sure why, perhaps using poorer seals and no leak mitigation mods.

Tesla LDU

COOLANT DELETE UPDATE! After 10+ years and probably ~$1B spent by all involved, Tesla released Rev U of LDU that eliminates the rotor cooling loop by changing the coolant manifold design. Coolant no longer feeds and cool the rotor. Longevity issues from higher rotor thermals is unknown at this

sites.google.com

 

[howardc64]

they actually give u that much warranty?? def no brainer then

Yeah 4 year 50k mile warranty sounds good initially. But we are seeing threads with < 2 year failures and warranty don't reset with replacements. So probably need to deal with this issue again in 5-6 years after Tesla replace it a couple of times. But to be fair, even if did a good rebuild with maybe a better seal and drain mods, I'd imagine 5-6 years max before needing to rebuild again anyways.

Unfortunately no one really knows how long any particular seal part will last in additional to seal surface preparation and installation error variables.

 

[pickleking]

I agree, 3rd party (like the shop where I work) will be much cheaper than Tesla in terms of doing a drive unit rebuild/replacement. I would argue however that the milling noise could have a damaging effect of the motor eventually.

The milling noise is a direct result of wear of the rotor and/or primary drive gear bearings. With excess wear, comes excess play, which can cause accelerated wear of other items, such as the rotor splines, and especially the rotor coolant seal. If the rotor coolant seal begins to leak, the coolant could permanently damage the motor and/or inverter beyond repair which is of course a much more expensive repair, and not to mention could leave you stranded with zero warning.

At our shop, the most common reason for drive unit rebuilds these days is actually due to the coolant seals failing, and not nearly so much milling noise (in later motors, they switched over to ceramic bearings which mostly fixes the milling issue, but they also changed the coolant seal to an inferior design that does not last). A full rebuild is $4,000, assuming the drive unit is in "functional" condition and can be rebuilt.

If we were to do a full overhaul at the shop where I work, we would:
-Replace rotor bearings with upgraded hybrid ceramic bearings
-Replace primary drive gear bearings
-Replace rotor coolant seal with an upgraded triple lip PTFE seal
-Inspect all parts of the drive unit for excess wear (splines, gears, etc.)

It is possible to swap in another used drive unit for probably about the same amount of money, but by doing so you are swapping in a unknown part. If the replacement drive unit ends up with a failed coolant seal, or develops the same milling noise issue 10k mi down the road, then it could be a lot of money spent for nothing. That's why we rebuild every motor that comes through our shop, regardless of whether it "seems" good or not.

I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend that ANYONE with a Large Drive Unit equipped Model S should check their drive unit for internal coolant leakage at least once per year, especially if you are out of warranty. For anyone who is near Vista California, we can perform the check free of charge at our shop (just make to call ahead first so we can make sure to have a lift open). For those not close by, here's a video on our shop's YouTube page on how to perform the check:

My rwd motor is being replaced right now by tesla under warranty. That warranty expires in 30 days (skin of my teeth). Once it’s expired, I would be interested to see if you guys would replace the coolant seal with the better designed unit? If so, any idea of the cost? It’s a late 2014 s85.

 

[EastCoast85D]

I narrowly avoided an out of warranty replacement of my RDU on my 2015 MS 85D. Built in 03/2015, I bought the car from Tesla with 28k miles in 06/2018 and currently the car has 97k miles.

I brought it in to the Centinela Service Center in LA because I was hearing a "thunk" upon acceleration and deceleration coming from the rear motor area. The service tech diagnosis (just from listening on a validation ride) was broken motor mounts and it was going to be $2535 all-in.

Once service got into the tear down they discovered that the issue was with the RDU itself and they replaced it with a remanufacured RDU. Luckily for me, it was covered by the power train warranty which expires in just 2 months. I'm feeling very fortunate.

Here are the notes from the service:



And the part replaced:

My RDU on my 85D is also getting replaced due to a clicking noise internal to the unit with a couple months left on the warranty!

 

[canasion35]

My RDU on my 85D is also getting replaced due to a clicking noise internal to the unit with a couple months left on the warranty!

Anyone know of the cost to do a S85 RWD motor replacement? I see posts above outlining the main pack needs to be removed, but is that really a necessity?

Could one buy a second hand motor, take out the old one and replace it? What is the outlook on that endeavor?

 

[brainhouston]

Anyone know of the cost to do a S85 RWD motor replacement? I see posts above outlining the main pack needs to be removed, but is that really a necessity?

Could one buy a second hand motor, take out the old one and replace it? What is the outlook on that endeavor?

Pretty sure u don't need pack removal for RDU.
Yes but you'll need to either software re-deploy (at minimum) or do some more invasive programming...
Alternatively, u can swap either the whole inverter or maybe even just the Control board inside inverter, over to diff motor...

 

[ajbessinger]

Anyone know of the cost to do a S85 RWD motor replacement? I see posts above outlining the main pack needs to be removed, but is that really a necessity?

Could one buy a second hand motor, take out the old one and replace it? What is the outlook on that endeavor?

The pack does not need to be removed to take out the rear drive unit (though the rear subframe which the drive unit is bolted to DOES need to be removed).
You could buy a used motor to swap in, but there is a high risk that a used drive unit either already has a leaking rotor seal, or could have it start leaking shortly.

If you're going to go used, make sure to confirm that the rotor coolant seal has not been leaking by pulling the speed sensor (of course that assumes the seller is honest and hasn't already taken the sensor out and cleaned it off). I would recommend that the seal should at a minimum be replaced, and it would also be ideal to add a drain kit to the drive unit so that if/when the seal fails in the future (which is inevitable), the coolant has an escape path instead of just pooling up in the motor,

 

[kyleng1983oc]

Not really... The only thing you can really do is keep on top of getting it checked out regularly. If coolant is present on the speed sensor/encoder, then that means your rotor coolant seal is leaking and you need to get it repaired before it causes irreparable damage.
If you happen to be anywhere near our shop (in Vista CA), we can pull the drive unit from the car and rebuild it for ~$4k if it's still repairable. We've also had a number of customers pull the motor themselves, or had another shop pull it for them sand send us just the drive unit by itself. The cost to rebuild it with that method is ~$2,750.

If you haven't seen it already, here's a how-to guide on checking the speed sensor. It's not too difficult to do, and can easily be done with the car on a set of ramps with basic hand tools.

Can you give me your store address ? I need repair my model s noise car .

 

[dark cloud]

Can you give me your store address ? I need repair my model s noise car .

Service your EV

 

[Ole1]

Our rear drive unit is being replaced at 5 years and 50,000 miles in our model 3 performance awd. to me this is pretty amazing for a powertrain that we were told (By Elon) would last a million miles. this is still under 8 yr/120,000 powertrain warranty.