Over promise, under deliver

[wiztecy]

Seems like the battery swapping became a reality too. Again I think people are demanding much from Tesla, lots of pressure on them to make a change and a revolution, and I personally can say that's a hard thing to do. But one thing I know with Tesla is that if they say they'll do something out in public they'll come through, it may not be as quick as regular people want, but hey, regular people don't understand what it takes to put a quality product out to market nor to just make a demo of it! So I praise Tesla for all they've done and thank them for putting themselves out there. I'm also stoked that they announced making a 400 mile pack available for the Roadster which I'll be happy to see sometime soon in the future after the appropriate testing and refinement has been done. I'm happy and proud of what Tesla has produced and become.

 

[felixtb]

Seems like the battery swapping became a reality too. Again I think people are demanding much from Tesla, lots of pressure on them to make a change and a revolution, and I personally can say that's a hard thing to do. But one thing I know with Tesla is that if they say they'll do something out in public they'll come through, it may not be as quick as regular people want, but hey, regular people don't understand what it takes to put a quality product out to market nor to just make a demo of it! So I praise Tesla for all they've done and thank them for putting themselves out there. I'm also stoked that they announced making a 400 mile pack available for the Roadster which I'll be happy to see sometime soon in the future after the appropriate testing and refinement has been done. I'm happy and proud of what Tesla has produced and become.

+1

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Actually, I think a perfectly fair post from Jalopnik. Obviously Tesla delivers on most of the stuff they say they will, but also just as obviously they do so - and have continuously done so - after numerous delays. Just stop offering unrealistic timelines, that's all it takes to fix this. Replace "Q3" (which turns into Q4 next year) with a simple "in the future". That's actually better for business too, because it doesn't so easily Osbourne your current products (now that Tesla has current products).

I think it is commendable Tesla tries to support older vehicles and change many practices in the industry, but where they fall short, it is perfectly reasonable to point it out - especially when fixing it, like in this case, would be so very simple. If you don't really know, if you really can't be sure of, the timeline, just don't comment on it.

 

[jerry33]

Actually, I think a perfectly fair post from Jalopnik.

Jalopnik's track record isn't great. "The Model S is vapourware, they will never deliver" is the one that comes to mind, but there have been many other negative statements over the years. Tesla has proved them wrong time and time again albeit later than many folks would like. In my opinion Jalopnick is the Fox News of automobiles and doesn't deserve to be clicked on.

 

[AnOutsider]

Again I think people are demanding much from Tesla, lots of pressure on them to make a change and a revolution

...but they wouldn't if Tesla wouldn't make announcements and then fall through on them. It's not like folks make up these goals; Tesla sets them, then misses them. Perhaps they should properly set expectations...

 

[ThosEM]

I thought it was the reverse. The impossible gets done, the difficult takes longer. Reason for this is that because everyone knows the impossible is impossible, there aren't any preconceived ideas that have to be excised before starting.

Well, that's arguable, I suppose, but perhaps i meant something closer to "impractical". Honestly, there is a segment of Tesla owners who buy the Jalopnik point of view in this article, and they come off as whiny, spoiled by their wealth, and impetuous in their demands on Telsa. I guess that goes with the territory in marketing to this premium segment. But I suspect Musk is not getting his panties in a twist over persnickety carping about imperfections or delays. He isn't building the automotive equivalent of tract homes in a subdivision. These vehicles are closer to his space vehicles, which he hopes to make in larger volumes by making them reusable.

I'm disappointed by things like the lack of solar covers on superchargers, too, but where is the competition in that area? One has to compete, and there are a large number of areas needing attention simultaneously. Certainly completing the supercharger network is a higher priority than making it solar powered. And the battery swap is mostly a stunt to prove it can be done, with limited appeal. And completing the Model X and moving on to Model III is certainly a higher priority than that. And so on. Life is all about prioritizing and moving ahead, step by step. My read of Tesla development priorities is that they are spot on virtually 100% of the time. The only dates we have a right to hold them to are those established when we plunk down cash for a product and get it in writing.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Jalopnik's track record isn't great. "The Model S is vapourware, they will never deliver" is the one that comes to mind, but there have been many other negative statements over the years. Tesla has proved them wrong time and time again albeit later than many folks would like. In my opinion Jalopnick is the Fox News of automobiles and doesn't deserve to be clicked on.

Jalopnik's track-record is, of course, equally fair game. But be that as it may, the article being commented on isn't a prognosis on the future, but a commentary on the past.

I think, this time at least, Jalopnik has a point. Even the most enthusiastic people here on TMC factor in delays to Tesla schedules. It is a bit of an inside joke, even. So, calling a spade a spade seems quite warranted in this case.

Maybe Tesla should simply learn from the past and be more conservative (or silent) about their public schedules.

Unless they are deliberately misleading to string people along with overly optimistic schedules. Hopefully that is not the reason.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, there is a segment of Tesla owners who buy the Jalopnik point of view in this article, and they come off as whiny, spoiled by their wealth, and impetuous in their demands on Telsa. I guess that goes with the territory in marketing to this premium segment. But I suspect Musk is not getting his panties in a twist over persnickety carping about imperfections or delays. He isn't building the automotive equivalent of tract homes in a subdivision. These vehicles are closer to his space vehicles, which he hopes to make in larger volumes by making them reusable.

So the Tesla owners who agree with Jalopnik's point of view are "whiny, spoiled by their wealth"? You do realize a lot of people buy way up their regular pricing to buy into this dream. And even if that weren't so, holding a someone to their word is widely considered reasonable in any income class.

People can appreciate what Tesla does, and appreciate how hard it is, while still making reasonable commentary on the stuff that goes wrong. Suck as they may, Jalopnik, in this case they are pointing out a real issue with Tesla's communications and way of working in public. By now Tesla should know better when making public schedule announcements. That is a perfectly fair point to make, even if not all agree with the severity of the issue.

As for "rights", I think everyone has the right to hold other people to their word. Now, of course the contract (or lack there of) in place dictates what happens or doesn't happen if the word is broken, but keeping one's word and holding someone to their word is pretty universally considered good manners. Even more so, when that word is coming from a publicly traded company peddling products to consumers. People may make trading and consuming decisions based on that information, even if not directly yet buying a Tesla.

 

[Krugerrand]

I think you're probably right -- and if so, sad that it takes something like that to kick them into gear.

Or brilliant that it's held onto until just the right moment. :wink:

- - - Updated - - -

...but they wouldn't if Tesla wouldn't make announcements and then fall through on them. It's not like folks make up these goals; Tesla sets them, then misses them. Perhaps they should properly set expectations...

Sure they would. They'd just move the goalposts on Tesla as is evidenced month after month after month. Tesla could hit every single target date and there'd be plenty of people who'd find something to complain or be negative about. That's the nature of 'some' people.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Unless they are deliberately misleading to string people along with overly optimistic schedules. Hopefully that is not the reason.

No way! That would imply that Elon Musk is a businessman who's ruthless in pursuit of his goals!

(The difference between Elon Musk and other ruthless businessmen is that Elon Musk's goals are ones that would be hugely beneficial to humanity.)

 

[v12 to 12v]

Let's be honest, if I set delivery expectations with my boss at work then slipped continually as Tesla does then I would be fired. It's not enough to deliver a great product.

I will say that announcing a product without a release date to generate excitement and publicity is a valid strategy ... if communicated correctly ...

I think that your boss would understand if you were dealing with issues that were outside of your control or ability to predict. Tesla is not the only company with this issue right now. There is a major work slowdown at all the West Coast ports and it is impacting every aspect of shipping. Ships are not coming into port on schedule, containers are not moving as scheduled and trucking is disrupted. This has been going on since early October and the work slows down more as each week goes by.

Sides 'Far Apart' in West Coast Port Negotiations - ABC News

Tesla was excellent at projecting delivery times until the new manufacturing line opened with a new product and then encountered the fallout of "port problems".

The same unexpected disruption happened with the battery swap plan. The unexpected addition of the titanium plates and cow catchers to cars made it so that they had to make changes to the swap process. Resources likely had to be shifted to deal with that issue because it was quite time sensitive. I think that Tesla has worked their way through many unanticipated obstacles efficiently. Tesla is still running like a lean machine.

 

[Breezy]

There is an undesirable side effect to all this hype. How many people are hanging on for the Model 3, and driving a polluting ICE car in the meantime, when there are other options that could work for them today? Not me. I'll drive the Volt for now and see what the industry has available in a few years.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Sure they would. They'd just move the goalposts on Tesla as is evidenced month after month after month. Tesla could hit every single target date and there'd be plenty of people who'd find something to complain or be negative about. That's the nature of 'some' people.

Sure, equally an opposite 'some' people would also excuse anything Tesla does, no matter how bad.

I doubt either of these extremes have much to do with reasonable commentary. There is plenty of room for both criticism and praise in the middle.

- - - Updated - - -

I think that your boss would understand if you were dealing with issues that were outside of your control or ability to predict. Tesla is not the only company with this issue right now. There is a major work slowdown at all the West Coast ports and it is impacting every aspect of shipping. Ships are not coming into port on schedule, containers are not moving as scheduled and trucking is disrupted. This has been going on since early October and the work slows down more as each week goes by.

Interesting and relevant speculation of course, thank you for that. No way would port issues explain all of Tesla's major product launch delays, though, running through all models and even most minor launches.

As for the boss example, by now would - rightly - expect me to factor the delays into my new schedules, not continuously keep offering optimistic schedules.

 

[Krugerrand]

Sure, equally an opposite 'some' people would also excuse anything Tesla does, no matter how bad.

I doubt either of these extremes have much to do with reasonable commentary. There is plenty of room for both criticism and praise in the middle.

Sure, somebody in the world is just that happy and content with life in general as to have no reason to criticize others. As opposite end of the spectrum that that is from the moving goalpost people, it doesn't leave the same negative residue behind, does it?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Sure, somebody in the world is just that happy and content with life in general as to have no reason to criticize others. As opposite end of the spectrum that that is from the moving goalpost people, it doesn't leave the same negative residue behind, does it?

Of course it does, if it means silently approving wrongdoing and thus enabling wrongdoing. Extremes are rarely the reasonable place to be.

I think majority would be just fine with Tesla's schedules if they just wouldn't be so late all the time. Easy fix: Announce later.

 

[bonnie]

I think that your boss would understand if you were dealing with issues that were outside of your control or ability to predict. Tesla is not the only company with this issue right now. There is a major work slowdown at all the West Coast ports and it is impacting every aspect of shipping. Ships are not coming into port on schedule, containers are not moving as scheduled and trucking is disrupted. This has been going on since early October and the work slows down more as each week goes by.

Sides 'Far Apart' in West Coast Port Negotiations - ABC News

Tesla was excellent at projecting delivery times until the new manufacturing line opened with a new product and then encountered the fallout of "port problems".

The same unexpected disruption happened with the battery swap plan. The unexpected addition of the titanium plates and cow catchers to cars made it so that they had to make changes to the swap process. Resources likely had to be shifted to deal with that issue because it was quite time sensitive. I think that Tesla has worked their way through many unanticipated obstacles efficiently. Tesla is still running like a lean machine.

Love this post. It demonstrates the difference between 'just being critical' and 'critical thinking'.

You're absolutely right, things were running smoothly until the port problems started. And that has had a ripple effect that will continue for quite a while. It's not just Tesla being directly held up - some of their local suppliers are impacted, which means they don't deliver on time - local drivers are impacted because their schedule is turned upside down, which means they're not reliably

The unfortunate position for Tesla is that they have missed deadlines prior, so it's difficult for many to evaluate the current situation and demonstrate understanding. The easy reaction is 'it's just more of the same'.

And no, Tesla doesn't deserve a complete pass on this. Communication to customers was totally within their control.

---------

I could forgive my engineering team just about anything, if they gave me an early heads up that a schedule would be missed and told me about the problems. But I wasn't so understanding if I found out the day before a deadline...

 

[Krugerrand]

Of course it does, if it means silently approving wrongdoing and thus enabling wrongdoing. Extremes are rarely the reasonable place to be.

No, it does not mean silently approving of wrong doing. There are many reasons some choose to keep their mouths shut and their fingers off their keyboards, just as there are many reasons others don't.

Criticism is perceived wrong doing, which means it's subjective. Some like to shout it from the roof tops as often as they can, others not so much.

I think majority would be just fine with Tesla's schedules if they just wouldn't be so late all the time. Easy fix: Announce later.

I think the majority already are just fine with Tesla's schedules. It may seem that the majority are not because a sampling are currently shouting from the roof tops. Oh, that perspective thing again.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

No, it does not mean silently approving of wrong doing. There are many reasons some choose to keep their mouths shut and their fingers off their keyboards, just as there are many reasons others don't.

Criticism is perceived wrong doing, which means it's subjective. Some like to shout it from the roof tops as often as they can, others not so much.

As I said, I was talking about those people who are never critical - the opposite of the always critical 'some' that was brought up. The good people letting bad things happen and looking away types.

I think the majority already are just fine with Tesla's schedules. It may seem that the majority are not because a sampling are currently shouting from the roof tops. Oh, that perspective thing again.

I was talking about the critics of Tesla being late - I think majority of them would be just happy if Tesla stopped being late. I disagree with the implication that a significant number would be critical anyway. I think always critical are a minority just as always uncritical ones are - and that's a good thing in my opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

The unfortunate position for Tesla is that they have missed deadlines prior, so it's difficult for many to evaluate the current situation and demonstrate understanding. The easy reaction is 'it's just more of the same'.

And no, Tesla doesn't deserve a complete pass on this. Communication to customers was totally within their control.

That is good info.

I just wonder how much difference it makes - within the context of the Jalopnik comment - that the reasons now are different than before. Reasons for missing deadlines can certainly vary, but there is always something in life. Tesla probably hasn't been including sufficient risk margins into their publicly announced schedules and has kept making that mistake time and again. That, in addition to failing at communicating this (as you said), probably lays at their door.

 

[JohnQ]

I think that your boss would understand if you were dealing with issues that were outside of your control or ability to predict. Tesla is not the only company with this issue right now. There is a major work slowdown at all the West Coast ports and it is impacting every aspect of shipping. Ships are not coming into port on schedule, containers are not moving as scheduled and trucking is disrupted. This has been going on since early October and the work slows down more as each week goes by.

Sides 'Far Apart' in West Coast Port Negotiations - ABC News

Tesla was excellent at projecting delivery times until the new manufacturing line opened with a new product and then encountered the fallout of "port problems".

The same unexpected disruption happened with the battery swap plan. The unexpected addition of the titanium plates and cow catchers to cars made it so that they had to make changes to the swap process. Resources likely had to be shifted to deal with that issue because it was quite time sensitive. I think that Tesla has worked their way through many unanticipated obstacles efficiently. Tesla is still running like a lean machine.

Yes, "acts of God" happen and I am not dinging Tesla on the first batch of P85D deliveries being held up. But look at the timelines for their major product announcements. Whitestar was originally slated for production in 2009. Before it was even called Model S. I don't recall the Model X original target date. Does anyone really believe that Model 3 will deliver according to Elon's target timeframe that he publicly shared with the press and investors?

This isn't about throwing the company under the bus. It's about them becoming more effective at managing their public comments about major product releases. Perhaps it's engineering optimism that stands in the way and that's led them to create two fantastic vehicles. But without a better communication strategy they will have to deal with this noise, and they'll develop a reputation they really don't want.

 

[KD5MDK]

No, it does not mean silently approving of wrong doing. There are many reasons some choose to keep their mouths shut and their fingers off their keyboards, just as there are many reasons others don't.

Criticism is perceived wrong doing, which means it's subjective. Some like to shout it from the roof tops as often as they can, others not so much.



I think the majority already are just fine with Tesla's schedules. It may seem that the majority are not because a sampling are currently shouting from the roof tops. Oh, that perspective thing again.

Are we talking about the majority of current Tesla owners or the majority of potential owners or the majority of people who have heard of Tesla?

 

[Matias]

Ramping up production of affordable Tesla may take years, Elon Musk says - LA Times

Story contains many examples about overpromising. Related to this, we have to take Model 3 predictions with grain of salt. Many of the projections Elon has made in the past, have been overpromise.