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P Options and Value

lotusland

Member
Jun 30, 2011
348
494
It seems like the price of the P has been announced, but not what is included. I know, it includes "all options", but what is that exactly? Based strictly on 0-60, the numbers don't pencil out for me. I'm hoping to be surprised, but there needs to be an awful lot of extra hardware included to justify such a large cost delta and I don't see what that could productively be, especially since the EAP option is already not part of "all options". I won't play the uncork wait-and-see game so a clear definition is important to me.
 
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JeffK

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2016
6,997
6,931
Indianapolis
A huge percentage of the markup is pure profit. We all understand this.

Typically you'll have a different suspension, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, and apparently that's about it. According to Elon's tweet, the actual rear motor may be the same, just the best ones out of each lot.

For a short time if you want the white interior you'll only be able to get it with the performance model as well.
 
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drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
732
Seattle, WA
A huge percentage of the markup is pure profit. We all understand this.

Typically you'll have a different suspension, bigger brakes, bigger wheels, and apparently that's about it. According to Elon's tweet, the actual rear motor may be the same, just the best ones out of each lot.

For a short time if you want the white interior you'll only be able to get it with the performance model as well.
It also has a rear carbon-fiber spoiler. And it sounds like whatever color paint you get is included, but not 100% sure about that one.
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,693
23,577
USA
I covered it here:

Performance Model 3 is too cheap - about to drop some truth bombs.

All options is basically the current Model 3 +

20 Inch Wheels
Carbon Fiber Spoiler
Better Interior Options
Paint of your choice

There's no mystery here, there is a big profit premium to Tesla if you want to cut a second off your 0-60.

People pay that much and more to do that for other cars.
 

lotusland

Member
Jun 30, 2011
348
494
MXWing, thank you for demonstrating the confusion that may currently exist. JeffK above believes that bigger brakes and a different suspension are included, while you appear to think only aesthetic changes are included. This is why I would like to know exactly what is included.
 

Petra

Member
Jan 31, 2015
813
1,229
Palmdale, CA USA
MXWing, thank you for demonstrating the confusion that may currently exist. JeffK above believes that bigger brakes and a different suspension are included, while you appear to think only aesthetic changes are included. This is why I would like to know exactly what is included.
Tesla hasn't made an official statement providing that information.

With what's known right now, you can either interpret Elon's tweet from last night to mean that sportier suspension is included (which isn't a sure thing... this is an Elon tweet we're talking about) or you can assume Tesla's usual "performance" car MO which means same suspension, same brakes (but painted red, unfortunately), and some mostly cosmetic junk like the CF spoiler and bigger wheels that, based on the Tesla site, may not actually be any wider than the stock aero wheels.
 
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MXWing

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,693
23,577
USA
There's no specific details on "how the sausage is made". Some are quantitative which we know. Some statements are qualitative but not much known to back up statements like:

Musk also said that the performance version will feature a carbon fiber spoiler, 20” Performance wheels, and black and white interior options. He claimed it will be 15% quicker than the BMW M3 and with better handling, and “will beat anything in its class on the track.”
 

lotusland

Member
Jun 30, 2011
348
494
I'm surprised so many are so excited with the P, even to the point of ordering it. A stick-on plastic spoiler installed on delivery really just kind of makes it worse IMO. It makes it clear that there is nothing different in the P and that they can't be bothered to do anything differently at production. It's disappointing.
 
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jaguar36

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
2,121
1,945
NJ
I'm surprised so many are so excited with the P, even to the point of ordering it. A stick-on plastic spoiler installed on delivery really just kind of makes it worse IMO. It makes it clear that there is nothing different in the P and that they can't be bothered to do anything differently at production. It's disappointing.
First off, as mentioned before Tesla has yet to actually say what is different about the P. Binning parts is quite common in other industries, and frequently the top parts carry a huge premium over the lower tier parts. Just look at any Intel cpu.

2nd off While it might not be worth it to you, the price increase, purely for a faster car is not out of line with the rest of the auto industry. Look at any of the other car makers who offer different engine options and the price/performance is on par with the P.
 

Petra

Member
Jan 31, 2015
813
1,229
Palmdale, CA USA
I'm surprised so many are so excited with the P, even to the point of ordering it. A stick-on plastic spoiler installed on delivery really just kind of makes it worse IMO. It makes it clear that there is nothing different in the P and that they can't be bothered to do anything differently at production. It's disappointing.
You're paying for performance and that's what Tesla is delivering. Why focus on cosmetic BS or the motors not being "different enough" or whatever? Capability is what matters.

Besides, the spoiler being added at the delivery center is a good thing for those of us who don't want it on the car... might be able to ask to have it tossed into the trunk rather than stuck to the car. I'm sure someone here would be willing to pay for it. :D
 

lotusland

Member
Jun 30, 2011
348
494
Because performance means more than just one second less in 0-60 times. I don't agree that for the rest of the "auto industry" the difference between a performance model and a standard model would be $24k and a software flag or even a motor swap. Generally for cars that are intended for any kind of performance driving, upgraded brakes and suspension are normal. Better tires, more supportive seats -- these are pretty typical also. I can assure you I am not interested in cosmetics, in fact for some brands the true performance models come with less bling, not more.

My disappointment is that the 3 -- at an $80k - $90k price point -- could be a fantastic car. From what I have seen and heard though -- I don't own a 3 -- simply increasing the power will not transform it. Yes it will give it 0-60 bragging rights, but that's all.

I get it -- most here do not care about any of this and just want to get the car ordered, or perhaps they feel that these things will reveal themselves over time. I'm not cancelling my reservation, but I won't order the P or any other 3 if the spoiler is the only delta.
 

chickensworth

Member
May 14, 2018
312
398
las vegas
The criticism that has plagued all Tesla P models since inception... from a performance standpoint, they are one trick (0-60) ponies.

if the Model 3 Performance is going for straight line bragging rights, it's not actually that much faster relative to the cars in it's class especially considering cars like the M3 are due for a refresh. so what makes the P class beating in this segment?
If there are no changes to the brakes and suspension, we already know the brakes are too frail for performance driving and the suspension struggles to handle the car's weight.

I'm still holding out that Tesla announces what has changed for the Model 3 Performance to 'beat any car in it's class on a track' outside of marginally faster straight line speed.
 

sreams

Member
Nov 7, 2017
733
1,307
Sacramento, CA
It seems like the price of the P has been announced, but not what is included. I know, it includes "all options", but what is that exactly? Based strictly on 0-60, the numbers don't pencil out for me. I'm hoping to be surprised, but there needs to be an awful lot of extra hardware included to justify such a large cost delta and I don't see what that could productively be, especially since the EAP option is already not part of "all options". I won't play the uncork wait-and-see game so a clear definition is important to me.

I'm surprised anyone is surprised by this. The price goes up significantly more going from an S 100D to a P100D. At the end of the day, you get a Tesla that can outrun a P100D around a racetrack for $40K less. With a P model, you are paying the extra for "fast", and no Tesla currently made will outrun a Performance Model 3 on a track day.
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,961
37,220
The criticism that has plagued all Tesla P models since inception... from a performance standpoint, they are one trick (0-60) ponies...
Not everyone will agree with you on that. My P85D is quick enough 0-60 to be sure but the long distance high speed stability, versatilty in bad weather and/or poor roads all make it worthwhile for me. I have driven extensively in an S75 too, so I do have the base model comparison. Both are excelelnt tourers but the P is vastly superior. I am convinced enough of that that I just configured a Model 3 performance too. It's not for everyone, but it is for me.
 
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chickensworth

Member
May 14, 2018
312
398
las vegas
Not everyone will agree with you on that. My P85D is quick enough 0-60 to be sure but the long distance high speed stability, versatilty in bad weather and/or poor roads all make it worthwhile for me. I have driven extensively in an S75 too, so I do have the base model comparison. Both are excelelnt tourers but the P is vastly superior. I am convinced enough of that that I just configured a Model 3 performance too. It's not for everyone, but it is for me.

No doubt they’re great roadcars... If it was in my budget, I’d have a p100d in my driveway.... but it’s no track car. I realize 99 percent of buyers won’t track their cars, but for Elon to make claims about their track-worthiness...
 

Petra

Member
Jan 31, 2015
813
1,229
Palmdale, CA USA
Because performance means more than just one second less in 0-60 times. I don't agree that for the rest of the "auto industry" the difference between a performance model and a standard model would be $24k and a software flag or even a motor swap. Generally for cars that are intended for any kind of performance driving, upgraded brakes and suspension are normal. Better tires, more supportive seats -- these are pretty typical also. I can assure you I am not interested in cosmetics, in fact for some brands the true performance models come with less bling, not more.

My disappointment is that the 3 -- at an $80k - $90k price point -- could be a fantastic car. From what I have seen and heard though -- I don't own a 3 -- simply increasing the power will not transform it. Yes it will give it 0-60 bragging rights, but that's all.

I get it -- most here do not care about any of this and just want to get the car ordered, or perhaps they feel that these things will reveal themselves over time. I'm not cancelling my reservation, but I won't order the P or any other 3 if the spoiler is the only delta.
Fair. But, like I said, capability is what matters. We don't know what that capability actually is yet and, in typical Tesla fashion, people are being asked to order blind. Elon is making some big claims by stating the Performance Model 3 handles better than the BMW M3, though... so, maybe this P model is different from the rest? We'll have to wait and see.

All we know for sure at this point is that it has more power and better rubber (Pilot Sport 4S).

I really hope they don't change the seats.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,299
7,613
Canyon Lake,CA
I imaging a lot of it will be about tuning. Maybe even an air suspension.

Tesla previously offered P versions of their cars which had different suspensions, calibrations, tires, wheels and were significantly faster than their non-P versions.

Elon is a auto performance enthusiast, even owning a McLaren. He knows the joy of a great performing vehicle.

Those who believe it will be just a stick on spoiler and painted calipers might be far off the mark.

Remember, they also have an ultra high performance New Roadster in development. Perhaps some of those components could find their way into the P3.
 

Petra

Member
Jan 31, 2015
813
1,229
Palmdale, CA USA
I imaging a lot of it will be about tuning. Maybe even an air suspension.

Tesla previously offered P versions of their cars which had different suspensions, calibrations, tires, wheels and were significantly faster than their non-P versions
Well, they installed thicker sway bars and offered staggered tires on the P85+, with some of those sway bars finding their way into very early production P85D cars... Those two configurations were the two best versions of the Model S from a driving standpoint, but I feel like they didn't go far enough.

Elon already stated that air suspension was not in the cards for this year, so a more conventional coil spring and damper setup is likely what we'll be seeing in the immediate version of the Model 3P.
 

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