P- suspension options

[Avendit]

As mentioned in a couple of other threads, the stock AWD suspension a) makes some passengers a bit travel sick sometimes and b) really isn't equal to p- speeds.

There are a lot of threads (some stickied) about moving towards track setups, but these all seem to be relative to the P. What I can't find is any concrete comparison or information about AWD vs P suspension setups. The best I've found is an old what car review that mentions in passing that the P has nicer suspension all round, not just for track days (Tesla Model 3 Performance, Engine, Ride, Handling).

What I'm angling for is should I look to acquire a P suspension set from someone upgrading to get me to a fast road setup, or should I just go and browse the unplugged performance and mountain pass performance coilover sets? Any one any thoughts about just adding swaybars to the AWD setup to help stop it diving as you go into corners? Has anyone driven both reasonably hard?

I'm a little hesitant over dual rate springs as I suspect an old family car had them and they also induced travel sickenss.

Open to ideas really?

For reference, I really liked the setup on my previous leon (effectively a golf GTi), and previous to that had a complete Toyota Racing Design setup on my celica. These are interesting in that they are both full coilover sets + sway bars, but both were in the mm lower range, not cm. The celica especially was like driving a computer game - turn the wheel and the world slides sideways in front of you, yet both were very comfortable for family holidays etc. Ideally I'd like to re-catpure that over the AWD's stiff yet bouncy approach which has really poor control round corners. Perhaps a P suspension set with uprated sway bars?

 

[stonecoldrmw]

I want to help, bit I am way out of my depth.

 

[U_S_D]

I guess it depends on how much you're looking to shell out?

Decent aftermarket coilovers are expensive, whereas OE P suspension wouldn't cost much.

I'll be able to give you a direct comparison of the OE Performance suspenion and MPP's Comfort Coilovers next Friday, but that wouldn't really answer your question.

 

[U_S_D]

It might also be worth seeking out an OE Performance rear anti roll bar. Apparently they're thicker than the AWD one.

 

[MrBadger]

Have you tried less regen?

 

[Avendit]

@U_S_D - not super fussed on the costs - more about getting it right without flushing £££ down the toilet. If on trial the comfort suspension is just that much better without getting too harsh for a daily driver, then perhaps the £££ is worth it. OTOH, if there was a P kit going at a good price...

I think some improved roll bars are on the cards anyway, I do hate the feeling of falling out my seat on corners.

@VanillaAir_UK - that is a damn fine idea. I am aware it's pretty hard to be really smooth on high regen, so knocking that down a bit is good for a trial. Can you still 1 pedal drive with it? It would also address another bugbear of mine which is the inconsistency - I really think that if you run out of regen for any reason the car should supliment what you do have to a given level so the is consistent.

 

[Avendit]

I guess it depends on how much you're looking to shell out?

Sorry, should have said, it's more about not accidentally going too far and ending up with a slammed track oriented monster that my family refuse to get in and I can't get in the drive. Exaggerating, but you see what I mean? Hence the reference to the Leon and Celica - better than stock, great on the road, but not really track targeted? GT rather than time attack.

 

[MrBadger]

@VanillaAir_UK - that is a damn fine idea. I am aware it's pretty hard to be really smooth on high regen, so knocking that down a bit is good for a trial. Can you still 1 pedal drive with it? It would also address another bugbear of mine which is the inconsistency - I really think that if you run out of regen for any reason the car should supliment what you do have to a given level so the is consistent.

I used it for a period of time on the advice of Tesla re brake squeal, so the aim was to increase brake use - didn't really work, extra braking was minimal. I got use to it very quick, it will still noticeably retard the car but you will still need to use the brake at times. I can't remember exactly when this was in relation to introduction of hold mode, I suspect before, but if you go into it expecting to lift off a bit earlier and apply the brake to make the final stop, then the rest will come back from muscle memory.

 

[Avendit]

I used it for a period of time on the advice of Tesla re brake squeal, so the aim was to increase brake use - didn't really work, extra braking was minimal. I got use to it very quick, it will still noticeably retard the car but you will still need to use the brake at times. I can't remember exactly when this was in relation to introduction of hold mode, I suspect before, but if you go into it expecting to lift off a bit earlier and apply the brake to make the final stop, then the rest will come back from muscle memory.

Will give it a shot next time I have an essential journey, cheers!

 

[Dangerous Fish]

A couple of questions -
Are you ever intending to take it on track?
What part of the country are you in?

I think it would be a very good start before making any choices or spending any money to just drive a few different setups and see how they compare, whether that's on road or track. Like U_S_D, I'm happy to offer you the opportunity of trying out my P+ if it fits in with your timescales and more importantly if the lockdown allows it, but in a couple of weeks I will also have replaced the factory suspension so that may or may not help you.

WRT anti roll bars, if your main complaint is diving under deceleration/braking this isn't going to help much and sometimes just going for stiffer ARBs will make the car feel worse on the road not better. In any case, there are only two front ARBs listed in the parts catalogue (28mm and 29mm) and two rear ARBs (16mm and 19.6mm) so I wouldn't be surprised if you already have the thicker ones. You can always measure them to be sure.

The other thing I'd say is that the roads in the UK can be very different to the roads in N.America, so mods which might work well over there may be impractical or just not work very well over here.

 

[Avendit]

A couple of questions -
Are you ever intending to take it on track?
What part of the country are you in?

I might take it on a track, but would not consider that I am prepping it for that at all. Aim is fast, surefooted road car that doesn't induce travel sickness in the passengers.
Usually in Edinburgh, currently in Inverness (with only one other model 3 spotted so far too - very different to further south!)

I think it would be a very good start before making any choices or spending any money to just drive a few different setups and see how they compare, whether that's on road or track.

This may be the right answer, but I think its unlikely to be practicable. Scotland's lockdown is harsher and longer (for better or worse) and there are just less people up here. If there is anyone reading in the central belt we could perhaps meet up in the longer term tho!

WRT anti roll bars, if your main complaint is diving under deceleration/braking this isn't going to help much and sometimes just going for stiffer ARBs will make the car feel worse on the road not better. In any case, there are only two front ARBs listed in the parts catalogue (28mm and 29mm) and two rear ARBs (16mm and 19.6mm) so I wouldn't be surprised if you already have the thicker ones. You can always measure them to be sure.

I think the re-gen may be influencing the travel sickness, so I'll dial it back a bit and see if it helps. The handling complaint is the car just doesn't feel planted on the corners. Rolls too much, gets really really upset with any surface imperfections, just generally not very composed. It feels like comfort suspension rather than sport.

I'll get the digital calipers out for the rear ARB, see what it is.

I'm suspecting that the P+ suspension would answer most of my concerns, but a trial would really help if I can find someone. That's the equivalent of what I've had on last 2 cars - just slightly spruced up, and from the sounds of it there may be plenty of second hand sets kicking around??? Save all the hassle of importing.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Sorry I can't help much - I'm in South England. Look at all the options and research all the forums and I'm sure you'll come up with a plan. Ultimately, I think a decent set of coilovers will fix your problem and there are choices this side of the pond now.

 

[U_S_D]

If you're looking at MPP coilovers, they're dispatched from Germany, so you won't incur any import fees.

 

[Avendit]

If you're looking at MPP coilovers, they're dispatched from Germany, so you won't incur any import fees.

\o/ woo! (Yet)

 

[m3p_uk]

Try chill mode if your passengers are travel sick

 

[Dangerous Fish]

If you are still thinking of trying stiffer anti roll bars to solve your problem, I have heard today of a possible UK source for adjustable ARBs for the Model 3.

 

[U_S_D]

Eibach anti roll bars are now available in the UK.

I'll be fitting some on Friday.

 

[Avendit]

Thank you for all the input. Esp the idea to reduce regen. Not tested it with others in the car yet, but definitely helping separate one of the variables (my heavy right foot with no lift off finess). Makes it easier to feel what the car is doing.

Springs seem like a bad idea on stock dampers, so need to find someone with a P at some point to have a ride in before deciding on finding a set of them, or going coilover.

The 45 profile 18"s wouldn't be causing flex on the side walls would they? Higher profile than I've had for a long time, but at 42psi they should be pretty solid I would have thought?

 

[U_S_D]

Maybe give them a try at 45psi and see how they feel?

I found increasing to 45psi (from 42) resulted in a slightly firmer but less harsh ride, but this was on 20" wheels.

 

[MountainPass]

\o/ woo! (Yet)