P100D, 760HP and Performance Tests

[sorka]

They were just taking delivery of the p100dl. When I took delivery of my car they had it charged to 100%. Who knows what the level of charge on the p90dl was? We'll have to wait until they get them to the track and fully charged to see how they compare.

The p100dl should definitely have the advantage on a roll at 45 mph.

That's an excellent point. Tesla always charges the batteries to 100% at delivery. Who knows what the V3 was at.

 

[NDR]

P100D Supercharge from 25%
25% 116kw
30 116
35 113
40 113
45 113
50 113
55 113
58 109
60 106
61 102
62 97
63 95
64 91
65 89
66 87
67 87
68 86
69 84
70 81
71 79
72 75
73 71
74 66
75 63
85 51
92% 37kw

 

[TIppy]

That's an excellent point. Tesla always charges the batteries to 100% at delivery. Who knows what the V3 was at.

We also don't know if they were at max battery ready. From the power plots that fiks posted the p90dl's power comes on quicker than the p100d. This may not be the case if the car is not at max battery ready.

 

[shokunin]

Does ordering 19 vs 21" wheels have any effect on the torque curve from the factory? I wouldn't think so, but seems like the TRC cars with the seem faster for some reason.

 

[Model S M.D.]

Does ordering 19 vs 21" wheels have any effect on the torque curve from the factory? I wouldn't think so, but seems like the TRC cars with the seem faster for some reason.

19s are lighter and theoretically 'faster.' I believe the torque curve is predetermined so as long as you don't get wheel spin you're good.

Also, TRC's driver look pretty light

 

[fiksegts]

negative.... too much noise in the first couple samples from power tools, I've driven both cars, there is no way power comes on quicker in the 90...

We also don't know if they were at max battery ready. From the power plots that fiks posted the p90dl's power comes on quicker than the p100d. This may not be the case if the car is not at max battery ready.

 

[TIppy]

negative.... too much noise in the first couple samples from power tools, I've driven both cars, there is no way power comes on quicker in the 90...

You've driven a V3 p90d and didn't take the opportunity to put a vbox on it. Shame!
It looks like the p100d's power curve leans more to the right over a lot more than just a couple of samples. The p90d's is almost straight up and down.

How do the 1/4 mile times usually compare between the track and the section of road that was used to do the first run of the p100d?

 

[theboom1]

Back on the powerglide? Are you trying to use this as an example again or are you actually advocating it's use in a tesla?

You do realize it couldnt actually fit and would have to be completely redesigned and therefore not a realistic possibility. Nevertheless your thought that only the clutch bands could fail is nieve at best. The trans requires constant maintenance of the fluid and shift linkage in order to ensure the bands dont wear out prematurely. If not maintained the gears will eat themselves alive due to improper shifting. You are lucky if it's only the bands that need replaced. These transmission are very temperamental and used in drag racing because they are no longer streetable due to the decades of aftermarket modifications. In fact everything you love about this trans will make it terrible on the road. The powerglide has exactly one use now and should never be installed anywhere else.

Go back and think for a while about why you love this trans soo much and then think about what that would mean on a daily driver. If you still can't figure it out go ask someone who owns a drag car to take you for a ride.

Edits: I'm grumpy in the AM.

My lord how may times do I have to say it. I was simply giving an example of a compact 2 speed that can easily take the power because you claim it can't be done which is clearly wrong. And remember electric motors has a much higher rmp range, as everyone likes to point out, so a powerglide would be nowhere near as bad on the road as a ICE car. Actually unless you needed the high speed power you could leave it in first gear all the time. There is not shifting linkage, you are just disengaging one clutch and engaging the other. I don't think you understand how im saying it could be made. After the clutches besides the gears and shafts there is no moving parts, no synchronizer, no sleeves, no hubs, no shift forks, just 2 gears permanently fixed to two separate shafts and you just select which to turn with the clutch. Even when your in second gear, first gear is still turning, the power is just not going through that route. Vise versa for first gear.

Think this (I know is doesn't look like this, its a shaft in a shaft from the clutches but its easy to visualize) with only first and second gear and both gears fixed to the shaft, just pick which clutch to close, Very simple. The gear not being used isn't disconnected from the shaft, just the clutch is not engaged. The lubricating of the gears as a weak point is ill relevant because you have to do that on a fixed ratio single speed as well. Then like I said the main only thing to go wrong is the clutches, and as I said they can be made to last a long time.

Have you not caught on yet that I am not saying they need to put one in the model s right? Its a luxury sedan, not a sport one. So yes, it would be dumb and not cost effective to redesign the model s for a second gear when its not a performance sedan. Im saying if they(or any manufacture) were going to build a true sports sedan or sports/super car, its needs a second gear and this is how it can be done and I believe this is how rimac does it.

 

[AWDtsla]

But a gearbox wouldn't really help if you want continuous high power, the drop after 100mph just comes natural to the induction motor, there is no way around it.

A gearbox is EXACTLY the way around it. Reduce motor RPM.

 

[WarpedOne]

A gearbox is EXACTLY the way around it. Reduce motor RPM.

Yeah.
There are reports from people doing their own DIY electric cars that they did not have enough power in 3rd gear to climb a hill. Solution was to shift into 4th gear.
That is not a typo.

 

[R.S]

A gearbox is EXACTLY the way around it. Reduce motor RPM.

We are talking about two different things, time and revs. Over revs its totally true, a gearbox would solve that, but it doesn't help an overheating motor. The high rev drop occurs because of induced voltage in the stator windings and a limited voltage supply, it has nothing to do with the motors losses. So if we think about high rev maximum power output a gearbox makes sense, if we want high continuous power output then it won't really help.

 

[AWDtsla]

We are talking about two different things, time and revs. Over revs its totally true, a gearbox would solve that, but it doesn't help an overheating motor. The high rev drop occurs because of induced voltage in the stator windings and a limited voltage supply, it has nothing to do with the motors losses. So if we think about high rev maximum power output a gearbox makes sense, if we want high continuous power output then it won't really help.

Rotor is already liquid cooled. I wouldn't call it easy, but straightforward engineering to improve the heat capacity further. Making an induction motor spin faster and with more power, you're going to have to dig up Nikola from his grave to work on that problem.

 

[St Charles]

My lord how may times do I have to say it. I was simply giving an example of a compact 2 speed that can easily take the power because you claim it can't be done which is clearly wrong. And remember electric motors has a much higher rmp range, as everyone likes to point out, so a powerglide would be nowhere near as bad on the road as a ICE car. Actually unless you needed the high speed power you could leave it in first gear all the time. There is not shifting linkage, you are just disengaging one clutch and engaging the other. I don't think you understand how im saying it could be made. After the clutches besides the gears and shafts there is no moving parts, no synchronizer, no sleeves, no hubs, no shift forks, just 2 gears permanently fixed to two separate shafts and you just select which to turn with the clutch. Even when your in second gear, first gear is still turning, the power is just not going through that route. Vise versa for first gear.

Think this (I know is doesn't look like this, its a shaft in a shaft from the clutches but its easy to visualize) with only first and second gear and both gears fixed to the shaft, just pick which clutch to close, Very simple. The gear not being used isn't disconnected from the shaft, just the clutch is not engaged. The lubricating of the gears as a weak point is ill relevant because you have to do that on a fixed ratio single speed as well. Then like I said the main only thing to go wrong is the clutches, and as I said they can be made to last a long time.

Have you not caught on yet that I am not saying they need to put one in the model s right? Its a luxury sedan, not a sport one. So yes, it would be dumb and not cost effective to redesign the model s for a second gear when its not a performance sedan. Im saying if they(or any manufacture) were going to build a true sports sedan or sports/super car, its needs a second gear and this is how it can be done and I believe this is how rimac does it.

Given your last post i am now quite convinced you dont actually know what a powerglide transmission is. You can read up on it here:
Powerglide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll note that this transmission uses planetary gearsets, drums and bands. While there are clutch packs, they do not work the way you describe nor do they perform the function you think they do. The GM Powerglide is also not compact at 27.5 inches long in its shortest configuration.

The dual clutch design you are describing is more like a DSG:
Direct-shift gearbox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Direct Sequential Gearbox IS a compact design of essentially two manual transmissions mashed together. And while you think this may be your holy grail of transmission solutions I would like to direct your attention to the rather extensive Problems and Recalls section of this article. In short, this is not a bulletproof solution. Not even close.

Also, while you are on your Wikipedia adventure be sure to look up what a shift linkage is. You'll definitely want to know this if you want to keep talking about transmissions and not sound like a complete dumbass. Also, please don't ever say there are no moving parts ever again while describing an automotive transmission. Almost every part in a transmission moves. You might even say every part except the housing.

Now on to the more pressing arguement. Why bother with a transmission at all when you could potentially solve the problem with a taller reduction gear. A 2.5 second 0-60 time is cool and all but really not necessary if overall performance is desired. This is all assuming that the defined torque curve isn't limited by the motor or, more likely, battery overheating. If overheating is the issue then adding a transmission isn't going to solve anything. The motor is going to be working harder and the battery producing more heat. Bingo, it's game over once again. This; this right here is why adding the unnecessary complexity of any transmission to a tesla is laughable. It's not solving any major limitation, is adding needless complexity and therefore useless at creating a solution.

 

[ggnykk]

Let's say the 100 pulls away 30 metres over 402 (1/4mi) from the 90. And that's a bit of a high estimate, I realize.
Taking a 120mph/193kph finish speed for the P90DL, that's:
193/3.6=53.64m/s.
30 meters = 30/53.64 = 0.56 second quicker.
20 meters = 0.37 seconds and I think that's a safe estimate.

So a 10.50 1/4 mile seems very much on the cards. Before Tesla do any tweaking as they've done before with prior versions.

I wouldn't be so optimistic. I think people would be very happy for 10.6x sec 1/4 mile

 

[ggnykk]

What size wheels on the p100d?

Tesla Racing channel P90DL and P100DL both have 21 inch factory wheel.

 

[ggnykk]

P100D Supercharge from 25%
25% 116kw
30 116
35 113
40 113
45 113
50 113
55 113
58 109
60 106
61 102
62 97
63 95
64 91
65 89
66 87
67 87
68 86
69 84
70 81
71 79
72 75
73 71
74 66
75 63
85 51
92% 37kw

there is no kw fluctuation as soc keep going up. Looks like the supercharging heating issue is solved.

 

[ggnykk]

negative.... too much noise in the first couple samples from power tools, I've driven both cars, there is no way power comes on quicker in the 90...

so that means P100DL will definitely have better 1/4 mile time than 10.78 second. P100DL has higher acceleration at any speed as well as 3 mph higher trap speed in the 1/4 mile. Can't wait for your Friday drag video

 

[techmaven]

I just want to note that the Rimac Concept_One is loud. Very loud compared to a Tesla.

 

[Cloxxki]

I just want to note that the Rimac Concept_One is loud.

There are a few more kW's on tap also
Perhaps their per-wheel motors can't be tucked away as much.

 

[Saghost]

I just want to note that the Rimac Concept_One is loud. Very loud compared to a Tesla.

That might be deliberate. Both Saleen's abortive attempt to make a Tesla variant and Harley Davidson's electric motorcycle experiment deliberately embraced straight cut gears to generate noise - to give them a turbine like whine for the "enjoyment" of the driver/rider.