P100D, 760HP and Performance Tests

[ggnykk]

That's why I said current theory. Every time I propose an argument for why the 21" wheels should be faster, sorka chimes in with the pre-programmed torque curve stuff. I have 19" summer tires on my p90dl and have done some acceleration runs. I also have a P85+ with staggered 21" wheels that I am going to move over to the P90DL. We'll see if it makes any difference.

Where is it proven?

P90DL v3 with 19 inch all season tires with sun roof. Runs 11.03 for 1/4 mile

versus

P90DL v3 with 21 inch performance tires without sun roof. Runs 10.80 for 1/4 mile

Just a side note, the sun roof alone does NOT account for all of that 0.2 second difference. Performance tires are wider and the material has more grip.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Does this put the AP 2.0 rumors to bed? I can't imagine Tesla delivering a $140K car that would be "obsolete" in a couple of months??

I am not sure if you have been keeping up to dates on the changes tesla have been making. To me the model s is like a cellphone. It is outdated the moment you bought it.

Tesla is always making changes albeit small ones. For example those earlier this year didn't have standard center console. The later version did. Now they included the rear cup holders and USB charging.


Point is I can total see tesla doing this update and another next month. It is something you live with when buying a tesla.

 

[TIppy]

P90DL v3 with 19 inch all season tires with sun roof. Runs 11.03 for 1/4 mile

versus

P90DL v3 with 21 inch performance tires without sun roof. Runs 10.80 for 1/4 mile

Just a side note, the sun roof alone does NOT account for all of that 0.2 second difference. Performance tires are wider and the material has more grip.

Yeah, those two cars have different versions of the p90dl batteries. The red car is a V2 battery and the white is a V3 battery. The white car makes more power than the red one and doesn't have a panoramic roof. Don't think we've proved it yet.

The extra grip is wasted. The car uses a pre-programmed torque curve that was built so that 19" all season tires would not lose their grip.

 

[ggnykk]

Yeah, those two cars have different versions of the p90dl batteries. The red car is a V2 battery and the white is a V3 battery. The white car makes more power than the red one and doesn't have a panoramic roof. Don't think we've proved is yet.

So you are suggesting that it wasn't the 21 inch performance tire that contribute part of the faster 1/4 mile time? I agree that it isn't a clear cut, unless someone use the exact same car and just swap the tires to do performance test.

 

[TIppy]

So you are suggesting that it wasn't the 21 inch performance tire that contribute part of the faster 1/4 mile time? I agree that it isn't a clear cut, unless someone use the exact same car and just swap the tires to do performance test.

Theoretically, the 21" wheels made his run slower.
I intend to do the swap on my car.

 

[fiksegts]

that was a V2 car/battery that did 2.65....

this car has 19 inch all season tires and extra weight from ultra-high fidelity sound system. You should look at these two videos for more comparable apple-to-apple comparison.

The fastest P90DL v3 with all season tires run 0-60 in 2.65 second, 0-100 in 7.06 second, and 1/4 mile in 11.03. Quite a bit slower than all the numbers we see with the new P100DL.
P100DL with all season tires runs 0-60 in 2.54 second, 0-100 in 6.52 second (HUGE improvement here), and 1/4 mile in 10.78 second. I am pretty sure P100DL with the right specs and min weight can achieve 10.6x second 1/4 mile.

 

[TIppy]

Using can bus data, I measured my V3 p90dl without pano on 19" summer tires at 2.58 secs 0 to 60 with a 1 foot roll out. These are the tires that came on the car. I'll put the 21's on and see what happens.
A V3 p90dl has run a 10.803 quarter mile.

 

[MuppetOwl]

the limitation has never been the motors. It is the delivery of electric power from the battery without overheating.

The limit is very often the motors if the battery is not very hot from supercharging or using battery max power.

To be more specific its the stator that does overheat. And that is the reason dual motor can be driven fast for longer than the rwd model S before power limit.

Here is from 100 kph to 250 kph on a P85D. (62mph to 155mph)

Battery temp did only raise 4 degrees Celsius from 30 to 34 degrees. But Stator did go from 48 to 115 degrees in no time and I got power limit to only 200 kW.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

are you guys sure that it is the motor that is over-heating, but not the battery?

No not sure, but >90%.

Edit: Looks like it's confirmed by Dennis87 above. This means you can probably get better times if you can find a way to pre-cool the rear motor.

Edit Again: I suspect it will be rare for the P100D to be battery limited.

 

[NSX1992]

About 2 months ago I raced an identical P85DL in the 1/8 mile. On 3 runs I was .08 faster on my 19" vs his 21" discounting reaction times. However I had 2% more charge and used slip start so that might have made a difference.

 

[flashflood]

Ooo -- @Dennis87, what app is giving you that telemetry?

 

[KIP1]

I can...

Seen it before. The only problem of Tesla. The car is obsolete faster than my mobile phone.

 

[KIP1]

Question, how does the P100DL 'only' get a 10.7s 1/4 time when the Tesla Racing Channels P90DL does a 10.8s. Isn't it 567kwh vs ~512kwh?

Drag strip vs dirty street?

 

[KIP1]

I wonder If the 100d has Michelin PSS as standard?

 

[NDR]

Pilot sport 3 on the 19"

 

[TIppy]

Pilot Sport 3
Max Performance Summer

These are not all season tires. They're max performance summer tires. These came on my p90dl about two months ago.

Not that it makes any difference, sorka.

 

[P85DEE]

Very impressed by the reduced weight (if that scale is accurate), less impressed by the power fade, hopefully that doesn't indicate a less capable cooling system.

Good point.

Question, how does the P100DL 'only' get a 10.7s 1/4 time when the Tesla Racing Channels P90DL does a 10.8s. Isn't it 567kwh vs ~512kwh?

I saw that too. With the power advantage it would seem like the difference would be more than one tenth.

P90DL v3 with 19 inch all season tires with sun roof. Runs 11.03 for 1/4 mile

versus

P90DL v3 with 21 inch performance tires without sun roof. Runs 10.80 for 1/4 mile

Just a side note, the sun roof alone does NOT account for all of that 0.2 second difference. Performance tires are wider and the material has more grip.

I agree that they are wider and the compound probably has more grip.

But what if they're both producing roughly the same 60ft times then I don't see an advantage for the 21s over the 19s when it comes to the final quarter mile result.

 

[Saghost]

The limit is very often the motors if the battery is not very hot from supercharging or using battery max power.

To be more specific its the stator that does overheat. And that is the reason dual motor can be driven fast for longer than the rwd model S before power limit.

Here is from 100 kph to 250 kph on a P85D. (62mph to 155mph)

Battery temp did only raise 4 degrees Celsius from 30 to 34 degrees. But Stator did go from 48 to 115 degrees in no time and I got power limit to only 200 kW.

This is interesting. The two theories I'd most heard for power limiting were either the motor rotor or the contactors/fuse. The stator wasn't even discussed, because it was presumed that would be much easier to cool than the rotor.

Actually, I'm not seeing a temperature for the rotor in that data. Do you have rotor temperatures for that run? Does the car measure the rotor independent of the stator?

 

[ggnykk]

Using can bus data, I measured my V3 p90dl without pano on 19" summer tires at 2.58 secs 0 to 60 with a 1 foot roll out. These are the tires that came on the car. I'll put the 21's on and see what happens.
A V3 p90dl has run a 10.803 quarter mile.

You gotta do at least 4 runs for the 19 inch tires, recharge the car to top out the battery, and then do another 4 runs for the 21 inch tires. Then you can definitively say that which tire is faster. Otherwise, one run against another run is another tire doesn't say much. It could have been variations other than the tires (such as battery output, surface traction etc)

 

[ggnykk]

The limit is very often the motors if the battery is not very hot from supercharging or using battery max power.

To be more specific its the stator that does overheat. And that is the reason dual motor can be driven fast for longer than the rwd model S before power limit.

Here is from 100 kph to 250 kph on a P85D. (62mph to 155mph)

Battery temp did only raise 4 degrees Celsius from 30 to 34 degrees. But Stator did go from 48 to 115 degrees in no time and I got power limit to only 200 kW.

Great insights! How did you get that screen to show up on the screen? a hack?