P100D, 760HP and Performance Tests

[GSP]

Saghost,

Measuring rotor temperature usually requires special laboratory instrumentation. It is possible for the inverter to estimate rotor temps based on recent history of stator temp, current, rpm, etc. This is important to do for PM motors, so that the inverter can protect against high temperature demagnetizing the rotor. Tesla probably needs to do this to prevent physical damage to their induction squirrel cage rotor as well.

GSP

 

[Saghost]

Saghost,

Measuring rotor temperature usually requires special laboratory instrumentation. It is possible for the inverter to estimate rotor temps based on recent history of stator temp, current, rpm, etc. This is important to do for PM motors, so that the inverter can protect against high temperature demagnetizing the rotor. Tesla probably needs to do this to prevent physical damage to their induction squirrel cage rotor as well.

GSP

I was thinking maybe Tesla could/should take a MAF approach to measuring rotor temperature - they're pumping coolant through a hollow driveshaft to cool the rotor, right?

If they know the flow rate and temperature going in and coming out, doing a little heat transfer math should give a pretty good image of the current average rotor temperature I would think.

If the thermal distribution is biased strongly to one side, it might not give much insight into peak temperatures I suppose.

 

[wdolson]

A couple of interesting observations from the video:
1) The center console comes with rear cup holder and rear USB ports, hope it is not a P100D special
2) At the end of video, the guy sat in a car with pano roof, and talked about "this car", while it was clearly stated earlier in the video that "this car" does not have pano roof.

All Ss built in the last week or two have had the rear cup holders. The Model S delivery thread everyone getting deliveries of just built cars are getting cup holders.

 

[brianman]

I don't tend to punch it with 100% charge so I haven't tested with my car but...

In the video, the UI shows > 50 kW regen (@3:58) with 312 mi rated. Tthe video starts with 317 rated and the UI seems to suggests it's at least 95% charged. Is this a change in behavior to allow full regen so high up in the SOC?

 

[msnow]

I don't tend to punch it with 100% charge so I haven't tested with my car but...

In the video, the UI shows > 50 kW regen (@3:58) with 312 mi rated. Tthe video starts with 317 rated and the UI seems to suggests it's at least 95% charged. Is this a change in behavior to allow full regen so high up in the SOC?

Are you sure it was ~95%? I thought it was on the 100 but was still charging per the OP.

 

[Saghost]

I don't tend to punch it with 100% charge so I haven't tested with my car but...

In the video, the UI shows > 50 kW regen (@3:58) with 312 mi rated. Tthe video starts with 317 rated and the UI seems to suggests it's at least 95% charged. Is this a change in behavior to allow full regen so high up in the SOC?

I thought we were clearly seeing a regen limit based on the high state of charge in the video. Granted, a fairly high limit, but much of the regen arc was dashed out yellow.

 

[ggnykk]

I am anxiously waiting for Dragtimes posting Youtube video titled "Tesla BEATS Ferrari and Lambo". I am sure that video will have 2 million views.


For your reference 10.78 second 1/4 mile from P100DL already beats these two brand new Lambo, and both of them used launch control for best possible launch.

 

[fiksegts]

if the weather holds I will be racing my Huracan vs the P100D at Palm Beach International Raceway tomorrow night...

my best in the Huracan is 10.72.....

I am anxiously waiting for Dragtimes posting Youtube video titled "Tesla BEATS Ferrari and Lambo". I am sure that video will have 2 million views.


For your reference 10.78 second 1/4 mile from P100DL already beats these two brand new Lambo, and both of them used launch control for best possible launch.

 

[jlewisthe3rd]

It was like that pre-D cars as well, though maybe not as significant post-D reveal. P85 to P85+, parking sensors, folding mirrors, subzero package, tacc, "D", and on and on.

Yes correct but not as significant, I could live with the small features that I missed like heated steering wheel, etc. but 50miles more range and more power, rear cup holders and MX seats!

I'm curious to hear the rationale behind this. AFAIK, all packs are charged to a cell voltage, which is correlated to some battery percentage. The actual capacity (shown in RM) is calculated by some pretty sophisticated algo's that I'm not sure anyone besides Tesla fully understands.

I cant say that I know the rationale but I can say that the algorithm has a higher Rated Range than stated, as mentioned by someone else a P85/+ with Rated Range of 265 starts our with 272-274 at 100%.

I honestly don't even know how the EPA tested range is a factor to the range display/calculation of the car, my understanding is that the EPA tests a car and thats the range that it sees the car has based on whatever factors that shouldn't be the default value of range displayed/estimated.

What does this mean? Tesla sometimes does a 100% range charge on the pack prior to delivery but I'm not sure what "overcharged" means.

Also, just a small request, do you mind not bolding your entire post? If you are trying to emphasize something, it sort of loses its value/effect if the entire sentence is bolded.

Sorry didnt meant to upset your eyes, was on a tablet and didnt realize it was bolded ;-p

 

[ggnykk]

if the weather holds I will be racing my Huracan vs the P100D at Palm Beach International Raceway tomorrow night...

my best in the Huracan is 10.72.....

Wow, that's great !

 

[ShotgunF15E]

if the weather holds I will be racing my Huracan vs the P100D at Palm Beach International Raceway tomorrow night...

my best in the Huracan is 10.72.....

Live stream please. Periscope, Facebook....don't care.

 

[Burnt Toast]

if the weather holds I will be racing my Huracan vs the P100D at Palm Beach International Raceway tomorrow night...

my best in the Huracan is 10.72.....

What about your 650S? What's its best 1/4?

 

[ggnykk]

The limit is very often the motors if the battery is not very hot from supercharging or using battery max power.

To be more specific its the stator that does overheat. And that is the reason dual motor can be driven fast for longer than the rwd model S before power limit.

Here is from 100 kph to 250 kph on a P85D. (62mph to 155mph)

Battery temp did only raise 4 degrees Celsius from 30 to 34 degrees. But Stator did go from 48 to 115 degrees in no time and I got power limit to only 200 kW.

Since the stator is the stationary portion of the electric motor, is it possible to liquid cool the stator? any technology that involves with stator cooling?

 

[ggnykk]

What about your 650S? What's its best 1/4?

650s is very fast, faster than Ferrari and Lambo cars in the same class. Best time of 650s are typically in the 10.4x second range for 1/4 mile.

 

[Wknapp0924]

Live stream please. Periscope, Facebook....don't care.

I second this! Live Stream event!

 

[KIP1]

This 10.7 acceleration seems to be done on normal roads, so interested to see how it will perform on a drag strip.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Wow, it's lighter? 4,795 lbs!

4,867 lbs for @fiksegts P90D+L? That includes pano though... still, lots more cells, roughly same weight? Must be a lot of weight removed from the pack (not cells) itself.

The difference between these two specific cars options might be messing up the comparison. According to the Dutch database P100D is 45kg heavier than P90D.

 

[MuppetOwl]

The pano roof option alone adds 55-60 kg to the weight.

 

[MuppetOwl]

Since the stator is the stationary portion of the electric motor, is it possible to liquid cool the stator? any technology that involves with stator cooling?

Rimac use oil to cool the rotor and stator. Tesla only use water cooling for stator and only oil in the differential.
Problem with water cooling is that coolant under normal pressure start to boil at around 125 degree Celsius. I think that is the reason Rimac use oil so it can cool the motors at much higher temperatures. But water it better at releasing heat than oil. So Rimac use both like normal ICE cars to.

"The motors (rotor and stator) are oil cooled with a closed-loop cooling system inside the housing. This architecture was necessary in order to get as much power as possible, while keeping the weight low. Still, no oil is circulating outside of the motor since the system features integrated heat-exchanger and pumps, which allow cooling the motor with a traditional water (glycol) cooling loop".


Powertrain
Front: Rimac Automobili D-PM-OC-500 – high speed dual permanent magnet oil cooled motors, 500 kW peak, 12.000 RPM, up to 97% efficiency.
2 single speed gearboxes
Rear: Rimac Automobili D-PM-OC-500 – high speed dual permanent magnet oil cooled motors, 600 kW peak, 12.000 RPM, up to 97% efficiency. Two double clutch two-speed gearboxes.
Rotor and stator oil cooling
Milled aluminium housings

 

[disillusioned]

I'm hearing no AP 2.0 hardware this year. Some things have...changed.

This... does not surprise me. It feels like the MobileEye separation might have been a bit unexpected in comparison with how it was presented, and coupled with the point cloud/several-cars-ahead radar improvements announced, it looks like the effort to squeeze more functionality out of the existing firmware is in full force.

I am (only just) moderately concerned about Tesla's ability to completely in-house the computer vision processing software themselves. MobileEye's been doing this for a long time and it's all they do. Really curious to see what new hardware suite and what supplier they land with for AP 2.0 whenever that happens. (This time next year?)