P100D - 93.6k if you can live without a sunroof. Might be cheapest on market.

[Xenoilphobe]

I did check out the new full glass roof this week and really liked it. Just wonder how theatrical impacts rollover

I’d rather just have a new one with zero, a P car doesn’t look any different with 30,000 launches but I bet it has a lot less life left. Not knocking this car at all but modern ICE cars are extremely reliable with virtually no engine, transmission or axle failures. For the comparatively few Tesla’s built there is a high failure rate, remember I said comparatively before someone chimes in defending the failure numbers which isn’t public information. I’m just going from the great number of cars listed with replacements. I have several late model Tesla’s and we love them, I’m not knocking the cars but just stating the obvious.

in 8 years when the power train warranty expires it becomes someone else’s issue.

 

[Sunshine State]

I did check out the new full glass roof this week and really liked it. Just wonder how theatrical impacts rollover

in 8 years when the power train warranty expires it becomes someone else’s issue.

Correct

 

[thegruf]

@Sunshine State yeah - i get that.
The argument is sort of US gas guzzling CO2 generating global warming vs Europe responsible super eco cars.
All very good except the German manufacturers f*ed it up, lied and deceived all of us so we're actaully in a worse position in the EU than you with diesel pollution arguably responsible for 1000's of deaths from particulates and NOx emissions, but hey we put less CO2 out so saved the planet.

Ultimately the positive is that it has given Elon+Tesla an even greater opportunity to succeed on the path to zero emission vehicles so I can take that as the silver lining, but no doubt this has been one of the worst examples of corporate mafeasance in history with basically nobody held truly accountable which is nothing short of disgusting.

 

[thegruf]

@Phrixotrichus - care to contribute to the thread and explain your disagrees?

 

[jaguar36]

That is what people say. I can’t count how many used Tesla’s I’ve seen where the owner boasts “New Drive Unit" or "New Battery" under warranty! What happens after warranty? How many used 2, 3, or 4 year old Mercedes and Lexus cars have new engines. I’ll answer that, very few! In fact if the engine fails in warranty on a Luxury car most times the manufacturer does a voluntary "trade assist" for customer satisfaction and then wholesales the car. I dont keep any car outside of warranty. I might not win by selling them at the end of warranties but I sure can’t loose.

This is not because failures on ICE's don't occur, its because of the design of the S, where it is very easy to just swap out the DU and refurb it off site rather than fix individual components. This of course screws over indy shops and DIY folks, but that's a different issue. I've had the "engine" fail on my last BMW 4 separate times. The turbos, water pump, valve cover gasket and water pump all failed. This is extremely common on ICEs.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

@Phrixotrichus - care to contribute to the thread and explain your disagrees?

You`re blowing the engine vibration thing on ICEs way out of poportion, The majority of strong vibrations still comes from the road.
In the last 20+ years I can`t remember a single engine vibration related repair on any of my cars. In general engine related stuff has been really rare for me, like 2 slightly more expensive incidents over 2 decades (1 turbo and a pair of valve seals) Past a certain age/mileage it was always stuff like joints and stabilizers or a small pump here and there all of which is also present in EVs (cooling/heating/washer-fluid etc). Due to the added weight of the battery I actually expect undercarriage problems to be more present on EVs than on ICEs past a certain age.

I also disagree with the notion of Tesla "reducing multiple points of faliure to one" being a good thing here considering that this one point is 3+ grand if anything happens at all. I'd rather replace a chip here and there over the years for ~100 or so each than pray and hope that nothing ever happens to any part of the MCU or the screen.
In general I don`t see the lower maintenance costs for EVs at all yet, at least not for anything with a Tesla logo on it as repairs, services and parts there are truly "premium".

The turbos, water pump, valve cover gasket and water pump all failed. This is extremely common on ICEs.

Manufacturers like Toyota or Mercedes had an engine failure rate of 0,58% / 0,84% as far back as 2013`s Warranty Direct study. "extremely common" is just subjective nonsense when you look at the official statistics...

Guys seriously, we`re all somewhat tech enthusiastic here and want EVs to succeed, but the amount of nonsense facts that comes from the electro-enthusiast faction concerning "ICE issues" is no better than the FUD that flows the other direction....

 

[Don TLR]

All this BS in a For Sale thread.. Its red and its fast.. I like it..