P100D Easter Egg ?

[P85DEE]

That's my hope.

 

[lolachampcar]

@AWDtsla @P85DEE @lolachampcar Can we not to this again?

ok

 

[Zooomer]

We've been working on the feasibility of making a 9 sec Tesla and this update gets us there, at least on paper. We're looking fwd to the project.

 

[MP3Mike]

We've been working on the feasibility of making a 9 sec Tesla and this update gets us there, at least on paper. We're looking fwd to the project.

Do you have any details to share on how you are planning to accomplish that? (Are you just stripping all of the "excess"/"unnecessary" weight out of it?)

 

[30seconds]

So what does it feel like to pull up next to a P90 or P100 in your new 488 or 911?

Do you think about the charming aspects of driving a slower car but made with the traditional techniques of internal combustion engines? Do you better appreciate the wonders of a 7-speed, dual clutch transmission controlling 500hp of exploding gasoline that should last 150,000 miles? Or wonder at the ability of these manufacturers to make such wonderful handeling cars despite the large lump of iron/ aluminum and assorted parts that need to be mounted higher and in a more concentrated fashion that a battery pack?

Or are you just waiting for Roadster 2.0?

 

[Zooomer]

Do you have any details to share on how you are planning to accomplish that? (Are you just stripping all of the "excess"/"unnecessary" weight out of it?)

We'll post as we go. ZZP has been doing mods for 16+ years and we have 4 electrical techs including the owner of Keith Bradley boats.
We took a GP from high 14's to 10's keeping the car street drivable with stock motor, stock displacement, no nitrous, stock supercharger.
We'll most likely be reducing safety margins on the electronic monitoring of the vehicle that reduces motor output, optimizing gear ratio, mapping the electric draw on inverter used to charge the 12v battery, and several other things. Some weight reduction, like wheels, but nothing that changes safety or comfort. I don't want to get into to much as we obviously want to be the first/best.

 

[azdryheat]

Pre march 2016 P90DL did never deliver on the 10.9 1/4 time. Now I said it again

I think the pre march 2016 P90DL have the old type battery and the 90 "v2" have the new improved type like the 100 package just with lower kwh.
So the old one are not getting any love. Just like us with the P85D never did get the high speed upgrade Tesla did brag about on the webpage or the hp.
When Tesla advertised the P85D and P90D they actually specs the performance for the next model and not the current one

I guess I didn't really look at specific ET's or HP. Do Porsche owners dyno their cars? I guess I just look at these as estimates, not guarantees. Plus, it doesn't seem like very many people have actually checked to see if their car will actually makes these times.

 

[AWDtsla]

I guess I didn't really look at specific ET's or HP. Do Porsche owners dyno their cars? I guess I just look at these as estimates, not guarantees. Plus, it doesn't seem like very many people have actually checked to see if their car will actually makes these times.

So we are going to get into this again, apparently. Do you measure every gallon of milk you get? Maybe it's only 3/4" of a gallon. Guess that was just an estimate, not a guarantee.

 

[St Charles]

might be doable if you lowered the gear ratio to the point that the max motor RPM was a few mph higher than the trap speed. Then again, the cars maximum speed would be around 130MPH rather than 155. Would make for an interesting launch, to be sure.

So we are going to get into this again, apparently. Do you measure every gallon of milk you get? Maybe it's only 3/4" of a gallon. Guess that was just an estimate, not a guarantee.

You can't just leave it alone? Maybe we could talk about this possible 9 second Model S instead.

 

[Zooomer]

might be doable if you lowered the gear ratio to the point that the max motor RPM was a few mph higher than the trap speed. Then again, the cars maximum speed would be around 130MPH rather than 155. Would make for an interesting launch, to be sure.


You can't just leave it alone? Maybe we could talk about this possible 9 second Model S instead.

The S seems to launch well so we don't need to lower ratio. At least that's our current line of thought.
There seems to be a delay to full power and we have some solutions for that if the easter egg doesn't solve it for us.
In dyno charts the power diminishes over the pull. This is either due to motor rpm and the HP fading as it climbs (in which case, we'll raise ratio to combat that) or it's from a temperature feedback loop reducing current as things warm up (in which case we'll change electronics) or the battery is only capable of peak current for XX time and we have some solutions for that as well. We'll be altering sub systems so that maximum power is available for the drive unit sacrificing other hardware for the pass if that proves to be of use.

Really our goal beyond showcasing our abilities and promoting our company is pushing Tesla and EVs into the aftermarket. It's absent there and that's what we do. I've been a Tesla fan for some time and even as the owner of the company, got kind of laughed at by my coworkers when I suggested that electrics would be competitive in the drag racing scene shortly.
I believe the P85 was a high 11 sec car at that time, maybe low 12's. We were discussing max HP ability of an electric, how certain amperage barriers couldn't be passed, the weight issue, etc. But as the cars got faster and esp when the S high 10s, the attitude of the shop changed. Now everyone is on board.

I believe that if we run 9's in a full car, the publicity will make people in the performance market start thinking about EVs. From there maybe someone can put an S drivetrain in something else or do the plastic window, stripped down car thing and run 8's. Seeing that the new battery architecture, not yet in the S is somewhere up to 30% lighter, the math starts getting exciting on the future of electrics in drag racing.

 

[yak-55]

The S seems to launch well so we don't need to lower ratio. At least that's our current line of thought.
There seems to be a delay to full power and we have some solutions for that if the easter egg doesn't solve it for us.
In dyno charts the power diminishes over the pull. This is either due to motor rpm and the HP fading as it climbs (in which case, we'll raise ratio to combat that) or it's from a temperature feedback loop reducing current as things warm up (in which case we'll change electronics) or the battery is only capable of peak current for XX time and we have some solutions for that as well. We'll be altering sub systems so that maximum power is available for the drive unit sacrificing other hardware for the pass if that proves to be of use.

Really our goal beyond showcasing our abilities and promoting our company is pushing Tesla and EVs into the aftermarket. It's absent there and that's what we do. I've been a Tesla fan for some time and even as the owner of the company, got kind of laughed at by my coworkers when I suggested that electrics would be competitive in the drag racing scene shortly.
I believe the P85 was a high 11 sec car at that time, maybe low 12's. We were discussing max HP ability of an electric, how certain amperage barriers couldn't be passed, the weight issue, etc. But as the cars got faster and esp when the S high 10s, the attitude of the shop changed. Now everyone is on board.

I believe that if we run 9's in a full car, the publicity will make people in the performance market start thinking about EVs. From there maybe someone can put an S drivetrain in something else or do the plastic window, stripped down car thing and run 8's. Seeing that the new battery architecture, not yet in the S is somewhere up to 30% lighter, the math starts getting exciting on the future of electrics in drag racing.

Simplest solution involves ultra-capacitors ... pretty straightforward engineering problem really.

 

[P85DEE]

The S seems to launch well so we don't need to lower ratio. At least that's our current line of thought.
There seems to be a delay to full power and we have some solutions for that if the easter egg doesn't solve it for us.
In dyno charts the power diminishes over the pull. This is either due to motor rpm and the HP fading as it climbs (in which case, we'll raise ratio to combat that) or it's from a temperature feedback loop reducing current as things warm up (in which case we'll change electronics) or the battery is only capable of peak current for XX time and we have some solutions for that as well. We'll be altering sub systems so that maximum power is available for the drive unit sacrificing other hardware for the pass if that proves to be of use.

Really our goal beyond showcasing our abilities and promoting our company is pushing Tesla and EVs into the aftermarket. It's absent there and that's what we do. I've been a Tesla fan for some time and even as the owner of the company, got kind of laughed at by my coworkers when I suggested that electrics would be competitive in the drag racing scene shortly.
I believe the P85 was a high 11 sec car at that time, maybe low 12's. We were discussing max HP ability of an electric, how certain amperage barriers couldn't be passed, the weight issue, etc. But as the cars got faster and esp when the S high 10s, the attitude of the shop changed. Now everyone is on board.

I believe that if we run 9's in a full car, the publicity will make people in the performance market start thinking about EVs. From there maybe someone can put an S drivetrain in something else or do the plastic window, stripped down car thing and run 8's. Seeing that the new battery architecture, not yet in the S is somewhere up to 30% lighter, the math starts getting exciting on the future of electrics in drag racing.

Sounds like you have many of the bases covered and your plans sound promising too.

Look forward to seeing the results.

 

[Zetopan]

In dyno charts the power diminishes over the pull. This is either due to motor rpm and the HP fading as it climbs ...

The three phase inverter has to vary the RMS voltage along with the field frequency to drive the motor and this is due to the inductance of the stator windings. So as the frequency (RPM) increases the RMS drive voltage also has to increase to maintain the same torque. Three phase induction AC motors generate a back EMF that increases with both the stator current and rotor RPM, among other things. At some sufficiently high RPM the inverter can no longer continue to produce increasingly higher RMS voltages (the inverter input battery voltage being the upper limit) so from that critical RPM to even higher RPM the motor HP drops off since the field winding voltage stops increasing even though the RPM continues to increase.

At very low RPMs the inverter runs the motors at constant torque (i.e. current limited), at middle RPMs the inverter runs the motor at constant HP (torque drops with increasing RPM) and at the higher RPM the inverter runs the motor at decreasing HP due to the back EMF and batter voltage limits. Of course any limited slip at low speed and other drive stability controls, including the throttle input, will reduce the above limiting cases to even lower torque and power.

One of your first steps should be to determine where these two critical RPMs occur: the transition from increasing HP and constant torque to constant HP and the transition from constant HP to reducing HP.

 

[Zooomer]

The three phase inverter has to vary the RMS voltage along with the field frequency to drive the motor and this is due to the inductance of the stator windings. So as the frequency (RPM) increases the RMS drive voltage also has to increase to maintain the same torque. Three phase induction AC motors generate a back EMF that increases with both the stator current and rotor RPM, among other things. At some sufficiently high RPM the inverter can no longer continue to produce increasingly higher RMS voltages (the inverter input battery voltage being the upper limit) so from that critical RPM to even higher RPM the motor HP drops off since the field winding voltage stops increasing even though the RPM continues to increase.

At very low RPMs the inverter runs the motors at constant torque (i.e. current limited), at middle RPMs the inverter runs the motor at constant HP (torque drops with increasing RPM) and at the higher RPM the inverter runs the motor at decreasing HP due to the back EMF and batter voltage limits. Of course any limited slip at low speed and other drive stability controls, including the throttle input, will reduce the above limiting cases to even lower torque and power.

One of your first steps should be to determine where these two critical RPMs occur: the transition from increasing HP and constant torque to constant HP and the transition from constant HP to reducing HP.

Great info, thank you.

 

[MP3Mike]

Did everyone See Elon's tweet saying that 8.1 should be available in about 3 weeks?

 

[KIP1]

As a P90DL owner, I agree.

I think this time round it is fair as they let you upgrade. I was pissed when I had the P85D and upgrade was not possible. Hard car for an owner who wants top tech!

 

[J1mbo]

The S seems to launch well so we don't need to lower ratio. At least that's our current line of thought.
There seems to be a delay to full power and we have some solutions for that if the easter egg doesn't solve it for us.
In dyno charts the power diminishes over the pull. This is either due to motor rpm and the HP fading as it climbs (in which case, we'll raise ratio to combat that) or it's from a temperature feedback loop reducing current as things warm up (in which case we'll change electronics) or the battery is only capable of peak current for XX time and we have some solutions for that as well. We'll be altering sub systems so that maximum power is available for the drive unit sacrificing other hardware for the pass if that proves to be of use.

Really our goal beyond showcasing our abilities and promoting our company is pushing Tesla and EVs into the aftermarket. It's absent there and that's what we do. I've been a Tesla fan for some time and even as the owner of the company, got kind of laughed at by my coworkers when I suggested that electrics would be competitive in the drag racing scene shortly.
I believe the P85 was a high 11 sec car at that time, maybe low 12's. We were discussing max HP ability of an electric, how certain amperage barriers couldn't be passed, the weight issue, etc. But as the cars got faster and esp when the S high 10s, the attitude of the shop changed. Now everyone is on board.

I believe that if we run 9's in a full car, the publicity will make people in the performance market start thinking about EVs. From there maybe someone can put an S drivetrain in something else or do the plastic window, stripped down car thing and run 8's. Seeing that the new battery architecture, not yet in the S is somewhere up to 30% lighter, the math starts getting exciting on the future of electrics in drag racing.

Maybe not relevant for your quest to get a 9sec car, but there's a chart near the bottom of this electrek article from the EGT guys (they will be running stripped out RWD P85+'s) which shows temperature performance over time. As you can see, it was the stator wot dunnit...

 

[Zetopan]

Great info, thank you.

Also note that although I did not explicitly state it, any excessive temperatures that are being monitored by the Tesla electronics will also cause a reduction in the performance. As an example, if the rotor or stator temperatures exceed Tesla's limits the motor drive power will automatically get reduced. At this point it appears that the stator temperature is the limiter since it generates the greatest amount of heat. See the temperature plots at Tesla-powered Electric GT shows its track-ready Model S ahead of championship

 

[soooma]

So what does it feel like to pull up next to a P90 or P100 in your new 488 or 911?

Do you think about the charming aspects of driving a slower car but made with the traditional techniques of internal combustion engines? Do you better appreciate the wonders of a 7-speed, dual clutch transmission controlling 500hp of exploding gasoline that should last 150,000 miles? Or wonder at the ability of these manufacturers to make such wonderful handeling cars despite the large lump of iron/ aluminum and assorted parts that need to be mounted higher and in a more concentrated fashion that a battery pack?

Or are you just waiting for Roadster 2.0?

 

[KIP1]

I wonder if the 100D will be able to make a lap before heating?