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Hard to say how much the pack will really change, in terms of power and energy. 100 is a nice round number, but the real change in kWh could be anywhere from 5 to 15. They also won't just put in more cells, so the chemistry, maybe even the cell format, has changed. Maybe in anticipation of the GF and the M3?
Power could also vary, because a different cell changes everything. BMW's 20kWh pack can deliver more than 125kW (170hp) to the motor, GMs 60kWh pack just 150kW (losses not included, so it should be more in both cases) so a 100kWh pack could deliver anything from 250kW(335hp) kW to 625kW(840hp).
I guess we will see at March 31.
...it's mind blowing that my 9 month old 70 may soon be able to get a 30% pack upgrade option. Wow.
I wonder whether the P100D pack has lower internal resistance or an improvement in some other parameter that would FINALLY allow the car to run the quarter in 10.9 as promised long ago!
This was my thought exactly with all the bantering that was going on in the hacking thread.If we weren't going to see it in March before, I think we will now.... This is Tesla's "iPhone 4 left in a bar moment"
You might want to switch to the Model 3 subforum.I wish Tesla would start to produce cars that are cheaper, not the ones, that are more and more expensive.
Math note: (100-70)/70 = 42 7/8 %Not that it's a guarantee it will be offered but it seems technically possible so it's mind blowing that my 9 month old 70 may soon be able to get a 30% pack upgrade option. Wow.
Math note: (100-70)/70 = 42 7/8 %
Morning brain. Thanks for the correction!Math Correction: (100-70)/70 = 42 6/7 % :biggrin:
...
Math note: (100-70)/70 = 42 7/8 %
Math note: (100-70)/70 = 42 7/8 %
Math Correction: (100-70)/70 = 42 6/7 % or 42.(857142)% :biggrin:
Very well speculated. I sure hope bigger doesn't just mean more cells as the car is heavy enough already. It's awesome to imagine in a year or two (or so, Elon time : ) we might have packs that are bigger and lighter.Just for fun I'm going to throw out some completely unsubstantiated speculations
"Approximate marginal increase of 30%" ok how's that fellas
Very well speculated. I sure hope bigger doesn't just mean more cells as the car is heavy enough already. It's awesome to imagine in a year or two (or so, Elon time : ) we might have packs that are bigger and lighter.
Step 1, make the 100 the new top option. Step 2 in 6 months, update the 70 to 75, with no price increase, and then drop the 90. From there, perhaps no S/X battery updates until after the Model 3 is being produced at a 100k annual rate or more, which will hopefully be mid-2018.
Well, I think I read somewhere that Tesla is indeed working on a less expensive model.I wish Tesla would start to produce cars that are cheaper, not the ones, that are more and more expensive.
When I think about it, it'd be so much easier to just have 4 models, an 80, 80D, 100D and a P100D with ludicrous standard.
It'd be so much simpler and would properly differentiate between them all
I thought about it for me time and there is something I really can't figure out.
Tesla might want the S and the 3 to use the same cells, thats fairly certain.
And we can also say that the next cells to come will be also used in the M3.
Tesla might also want to use the same modules, but there is a problem with that.
If we assume that those 100kwh packs still use the same 16 modules and the 70*X pack still uses 14, with 4 of them half empty, a something like 60kWh pack with 10 modules would make sense, but then the Voltage would drop too low. So they might need to use different modules, or make even more modules half empty, which can't be very cost effective. The smartest solution would be if they could use one battery module for the whole lineup. In that case they could run one product line no matter what cars they want to produce and just fit in the amount of modules they need. It would be a very lean solution.
Maybe they might change the packs network completely, to give every module about 200V, put always 2 in series to get to 400V and then set up all the pairs parallely. Does anyone know if that, or something like that, would be possible?
Not sure what your saying by half empty modules. All of the modules in a given pack are the same. In all there are 3 known types of modules: 85kwh type modules (all carbon), 60kwh type modules (all carbon with some missing cells evenly spaced out) now discontinued, and the 90kwh type modules (added silicon). The 70 pack uses 14 (type 85) full modules. Given that all of the modules are in series, they need to be the same. So they have already transitioned to the "lean" strategy as you have described. They just need to fully drop the type 85 module, therefore upgrading the 70 to something like 73... (round up to 75). Then they would have only one type of module. My guess they still have a lot of production capacity for the fully carbon cells and want to continue to take advantage of that supply.
An auxiliary pack system could be made, but I think in the grand scheme of things it would be simpler, safer, and more cost effect to just work the upgrades into the main pack, be it chemistry or packing efficiency improvements.
The problem with putting every module in parallel is it introduces hellatous balancing issues, just ask wk057. They wouldn't be able to use their simple bleed resistor to balance cell groups, as you would also pull down the voltage of the modules in parallel that you didn't intend to lower. (I can explain this better if needed) Therefore you would need to put a DC to DC converter in between modules or do some other tricky balancing maneuvers.