P3D+ 250 mile range with non-aggressive driving

[Ormond]

@khraiv Did you have your car in Chill Mode or Performance?

Do you all think this has much of an affect on range?

 

[Rkoroma]

Plenty of reviews on this car, but not a ton of coverage on P3D and especially for the P3D+ (namely 20" 4S wheels), so thought it might be helpful for those undecided.

After an 800-mile trip from AZ to CA and back in 2 days, using 99% autopilot @ limit+5mph (65/70-75/80), I averaged 300 Watt/mile. This of course translates to 250 mile range. I don't do a lot of long distance driving, so this wasn't a big deal to me, but wanted to provide some insight on real-world driving range. Tires were at 46 PSI (i'll drop down a bit now that trip is over). I've seen enough data to not expect to see the 310 EPA range, but I was a little disappointed after doing mostly everything right.

Now the impact of the reduced range wasn't a huge deal. I don't believe I would have stopped any less if I had the full 310m range, but it did impact:

• Estimated routes are based on this EPA range could get people into trouble. Think about it. Sometimes, Tesla will route you to a destination with an estimated 10% range remaining. Well, as shown from my data, my vehicle gets about 20% less range than the estimates. Luckily this didn't impact me, but it could have. My biggest pet peeve is that the estimates are based on EPA, not real-world usage. It seemed to improve over time, but I cannot say for certain.
• Even though I didn't stop any more frequently, with my vehicle being less efficient, it resulted in roughly 20% longer stops due to increased charge times. Not a huge deal, most superchargers are reasonably strategically located to useful stuff.

Overall a great experience, and have zero regrets with P3D+. But if you do a lot of long range trips, this may be a consideration. Perhaps they'll release 20" aero's in the future to improve range by ~5%.

You also have to consider the Arizona heat! That is a big Battery drain along with speed ! Try and stay around 65-70 mph. Should expect better results

 

[Firewired]

What is the approximate range showing for 90% and 100% states of charge that people are seeing on their 20” wheels?

 

[animorph]

What is the approximate range showing for 90% and 100% states of charge that people are seeing on their 20” wheels?

There is no "approximate range showing". The car shows the EPA rated range for the battery charge, the "rated miles". It's a function of energy in the battery and your model's EPA miles/kWh constant. No accommodation for 20" wheels or weather or anything. So all cars of your basic model (P3?) should show roughly the same rated miles at 90% or 100%, subject to minor battery variations or degradation.

If you set a destination in the nav it will tell you the percent of charge remaining at the destination. That is it's best estimate, including the last 30 miles you've driven and elevation changes, and has been more and more accurate for me. Not exactly a "range" estimate, but gets the job done.

 

[khraiv]

You also have to consider the Arizona heat! That is a big Battery drain along with speed ! Try and stay around 65-70 mph. Should expect better results

Sure heat plays a small factor. As well as it being in performance mode instead of chill, but very doubtful it'd matter much as it was a smooth ride. Also I did go 65-70 in 65 limit zones. Like I said, limit+5. Never was I speeding. In fact I was being passed by a ton of vehicles. Anyone claiming I was going too fast is not being realistic.

 

[jiten87]

Something that I always noticed is that the performance model of every Tesla always has less range than their non performance counter parts.

For the model 3, the (long) range is the same for rwd awd and p, how is this possible? It usually deters me from getting a P model because I want as much range as possible, but it seems consistent across the board for the P3D

 

[chronopc]

Nor was my average anywhere close to that. I said limit+5 (plenty of 35s etc), which is super typical real-world driving. Anyway, my post was only to educate and show there are still improvements to be made in the estimations. I fully expect that I will never hit 310 mile range under any real-world circumstance, I just want Tesla to be honest and favor proper estimates over inflating marketing numbers.

Edit: regardless of speed, I have never seen any lower than 240watt/mile, and it was not sustainable. Even conservative city driving is generally around 280watt/mile. This car does not get anywhere near the mileage of rwd stock aeros, nor should it. I just want accurate estimates instead of fictional data.

When you do city driving do you try to take take advantage of regenerative breaking? I notice that taking full advantage of regenerative breaking will greatly decreasing the average watt/mile.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Something that I always noticed is that the performance model of every Tesla always has less range than their non performance counter parts.

For the model 3, the (long) range is the same for rwd awd and p, how is this possible? It usually deters me from getting a P model because I want as much range as possible, but it seems consistent across the board for the P3D

For the Model 3 the range of the AWD/P-AWD is NOT the same as the RWD.

The EPA range of the RWD is actually closer to 340 miles

The EPA range of the AWD/AWD-P is 310 miles. The difference between the AWD and the AWD-P looks to be a purely SW one. We know the motors are the same physical motors, but I haven't heard if the power train electronics are the same. The fact that the motors are the same, and the weight is the same leads me to believe that there is no reason why a P3D won't have the same range as an AWD. Assuming the same tire setup. The only major range hit the AWD takes if with the 20inch wheels.

Tesla reports them as the same because Tesla is prioritizing profits over being consumer friendly. They don't give people the information they need to make an informed decision.

With the Model S before I bought it I could go to the Tesla website and use the range estimator to play around with the Model, Tires, etc. Where my only complaint was the speed range didn't go high enough.

With the Model 3 it's all crap. Where instead of a range calculator we have to rely on owners to tell us what they're getting to make an informed decision.

I guess the web developer is on the assembly floor making cars.

 

[burnside]

I don't think that fast acceleration uses more energy than slow acceleration. It takes the same amount of energy to reach a set speed whether you do it slowly or quickly. As far as I know the efficiency of the electric motor doesn't decrease at high loads.

Part of my drive home is up a hill for about a mile with the speed limit being 40mph. It's a pretty steep hill which AP can navigate. When AP is in control, it consumes on average 10 miles of range. When I drive up the hill without AP, I'm getting 7-8 miles of range used.

Now this isn't highway driving and it's not for a long drive, but it begins to show how AP wastes some of that energy trying to keep at a 40mph speed. On steeper portions of the drive in AP, I can see the energy bar shoot up to about 3/4. Yet, when I drive that section, I don't push the car to stay at 40mph and the energy bar never reaches half way.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Part of my drive home is up a hill for about a mile with the speed limit being 40mph. It's a pretty steep hill which AP can navigate. When AP is in control, it consumes on average 10 miles of range. When I drive up the hill without AP, I'm getting 7-8 miles of range used.

Now this isn't highway driving and it's not for a long drive, but it begins to show how AP wastes some of that energy trying to keep at a 40mph speed. On steeper portions of the drive in AP, I can see the energy bar shoots up to about 3/4, yet, at when I drive that section I don't push the car to stay at 40mph and the energy bar never reaches half way.

Can you try it again with chill mode enabled?

 

[chronopc]

Part of my drive home is up a hill for about a mile with the speed limit being 40mph. It's a pretty steep hill which AP can navigate. When AP is in control, it consumes on average 10 miles of range. When I drive up the hill without AP, I'm getting 7-8 miles of range used.

Now this isn't highway driving and it's not for a long drive, but it begins to show how AP wastes some of that energy trying to keep at a 40mph speed. On steeper portions of the drive in AP, I can see the energy bar shoot up to about 3/4. Yet, when I drive that section, I don't push the car to stay at 40mph and the energy bar never reaches half way.

According to this hypermiling video, AP is more efficient if all factors are the same.

 

[SageBrush]

According to this hypermiling video, AP is more efficient if all factors are the same.

AP will be less efficient than a knowledgeable driver in hilly terrain who lets the vehicle speed vary. Most of the advantage is from pre-planning descents and avoiding regen.

 

[chronopc]

AP will be less efficient than a knowledgeable driver in hilly terrain who lets the vehicle speed vary. Most of the advantage is from avoiding regen.

You're describing a difference in driving style and not efficiency.

 

[PJFW8]

I thought I read that EAP does use up more battery due to the constant scanning from the sensors and cameras etc.

It scans constantly whether you use EAP or not. It operates in shadow mode even if you don't have EAP.

 

[khraiv]

When you do city driving do you try to take take advantage of regenerative breaking? I notice that taking full advantage of regenerative breaking will greatly decreasing the average watt/mile.

Good call out. Yes I take full advantage of regen. I use virtually zero breaking. Those big beautiful breaks just sit there lookin pretty.

 

[chronopc]

Good call out. Yes I take full advantage of regen. I use virtually zero breaking. Those big beautiful breaks just sit there lookin pretty.

I guess the performance version is just a lot less efficient. But you get free supercharging and the increased speed so it shouldn't really matter in the long run. Especially when V3 of the supercharger comes out.

 

[SageBrush]

You're describing a difference in driving style and not efficiency.

One of the best known efficiency techniques in an ICE car is to use the motor in the power band with the highest BSFC.
Is that efficiency or style ?

 

[e-FTW]

Sure heat plays a small factor. As well as it being in performance mode instead of chill, but very doubtful it'd matter much as it was a smooth ride. Also I did go 65-70 in 65 limit zones. Like I said, limit+5. Never was I speeding. In fact I was being passed by a ton of vehicles. Anyone claiming I was going too fast is not being realistic.

I guess the point folks are making is that driving on a 70mph highway will reduce your efficiency dramatically. And that the EPA cycle does not account for 70+mph highways, so we should not be surprised at the lower wh/mile number.

 

[chronopc]

One of the best known efficiency techniques in an ICE car is to use the motor in the power band with the highest BSFC.
Is that efficiency or style ?

That sounds like equipment to me. It's like comparing 18" v. 19" wheels.

 

[noam]

Just to go back to @khraiv's original point... The data he saw is exactly aligned with what @Troy published based on the EPA data aligned to just highway driving and not a mix:

Tesla Model S/X/3 range at 65/70/75/80 mph

Looking at that chart, a P3D on 20" wheels doing between 70-75 mph would be expected to have a range of 240-260 miles, which is exactly what @khraiv saw. That car would be expected to have about 25 miles of additional range for every 5 mph reduction of speed (at least down to 55 mph per the chart).