P3D crowd: Competing vs. high-performance ICE from a roll?

[Dolemite]

A hellcat with traction was very similar in speed from a roll to my bmw m3. Then again I typically do rolls thats end around 130mph or more. Fore reference my car made 575 whp.

When we getting ludicrous ?

I saw a rumor on here that a totally “unrestricted” P3D would hit 60 in 2.6 seconds. Who knows.

Was it at 575 when you raced the Tesla?

 

[ElectroFish]

I saw a rumor on here that a totally “unrestricted” P3D would hit 60 in 2.6 seconds. Who knows.

Was it at 575 when you raced the Tesla?

No I was at 500ish . On e85 I have tons of ignition timing and very little turbo lag. Not many cars are beating it from a roll. 60-130 was 6.75.

The issue is the loss of power with speed. The model 3 is only making around 300 hp at 100 mph while my m3 is still holding 500.

 

[Dolemite]

No I was at 500ish . On e85 I have tons of ignition timing and very little turbo lag. Not many cars are beating it from a roll. 60-130 was 6.75.

The issue is the loss of power with speed. The model 3 is only making around 300 hp at 100 mph while my m3 is still holding 500.

That's still highly encouraging - I think with the last 5% bump in November, the P3D should be @ 500+ peak at the "crank" or whatever we're calling it. I've also heard that the main reason for it getting wheezy at higher speeds is the fact that it has only one gear...

 

[dfwatt]

That's still highly encouraging - I think with the last 5% bump in November, the P3D should be @ 500+ peak at the "crank" or whatever we're calling it. I've also heard that the main reason for it getting wheezy at higher speeds is the fact that it has only one gear...

Electric motors have amazingly flat horsepower curves but they still drop off at high RPM. The other issue is that its always is faster than its power to weight ratio would suggest because of the relative lack of parasitic losses from a drive shaft and transmission. All-wheel drive transmissions with drive shafts might chew up as much as 15-18% in parasitic losses whereas the system in the Tesla is probably in the low single digits

 

[famoruwa]

My F90 M5 is a hair or so faster to 60 than my P3D+ and walks away after 80 or so.

 

[dfwatt]

My F90 M5 is a hair or so faster to 60 than my P3D+ and walks away after 80 or so.

All the while guzzling gas like a drunken sailor!

 

[Mike Hawk]

Ran a newer, healthy sounding 5.0 70-120mph. It was a draw.

 

[neezer]

Ok, you're wrong

Pre-5% update (either of em) the AWD did 50-70 in 2.06 seconds... the P did it in 1.7 (based on draggy/vbox info posted here by various folks)

Now- the difference, especially above that, is very very very small (though not non-existent)... which is why 0-60 is (if you compare apples to apples) a little under 1 second apart...and at ~115-117 (end of 1/4 mile) the difference is... almost unchanged (and the trap speeds are damn close too).

Are you trying to say that after this latest second-power-bump-update-of-2019, a non-P AWD is barely any slower, and less than a second slower now to 60 to boot, than a non-P?

I am not so sure about all that; my buddy with an AWD thinks my M3P feels bananas-faster than his car ...though admittedly before the latest power update.

 

[neezer]

All the videos I've seen that start at a roll of anywhere between 30 and 70 mph the P3D destroys anything put up against it except super cars. The reason is the instant torque and on gearbox vs the ICE car needing to rev up and shift to a lower gear.

Carwow did a video with the P3D+, BMW M3, and RS4 in a drag race from a stand still, and from a 50mph rolling start. Tesla shot off but the BMW eventually caught up at ~130mph.

I assume most folks here saw that piss-poor Chris Harris Top Gear clip of the M3P going against the C63S, M3, and others, to a 1/2 mile and losing to the Benz? I really wish they re-do this one (which we all know they won't) because in the original "show" (what a joke):

- The Tesla clearly had 4-5 dots on the power line, meaning it was cold soaked most likely, considerably limiting the high end torque output in particular, even if the battery was a much higher SOC...which it wasn't ...
- The Tesla had 57% SOC
- This was most likely filmed BEFORE the first power update from ~March or April of this year
- This was definitely filmed before the Nov power update, which we know specifically boosted the pulling power above ~60mph

I have no doubt the C63S would lose to a current up-to-date M3P with at least 90% SOC, to the 1/2 mile marker.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

That's still highly encouraging - I think with the last 5% bump in November, the P3D should be @ 500+ peak at the "crank" or whatever we're calling it. I've also heard that the main reason for it getting wheezy at higher speeds is the fact that it has only one gear...

are there any numbers for the latest HP? I did a power tools pull on a new 2020 P3 and got 545 HP. I think it pulls at least 410kW (406 @ 78%) now

 

[Dolemite]

Are you trying to say that after this latest second-power-bump-update-of-2019, a non-P AWD is barely any slower, and less than a second slower now to 60 to boot, than a non-P?

I am not so sure about all that; my buddy with an AWD thinks my M3P feels bananas-faster than his car ...though admittedly before the latest power update.

I don’t think people understand the orders of magnitude it takes to keep getting faster. Going from a 6-second 0-60 to a 5, to a 4, to a 3... all completely different things. Once you get below 3, it starts getting absolutely insane. Diminishing returns and all that.

Also we should take a moment to appreciate the fact that here we are comparing a car that’s been out for ~2 years against seasoned veterans of the industry that have been refined over decades... imagine where we’ll be in 20 years.

 

[Knightshade]

Are you trying to say that after this latest second-power-bump-update-of-2019, a non-P AWD is barely any slower

Define barely.

At the end of the 1/4 mile there's only a 1-2 mph difference which means power is nearly identical by that point.

The P still gets there almost 1 full second quicker though just as it always has.... but that's about the same "quicker" it gets to 60, hence that most of the difference is below 60.

A
, and less than a second slower now to 60 to boot, than a non-P?

Yes.

Just like it was before this last update.

Before this last update the AWD was 4.0 0-60, the P was 3.1 0-60 (both using 1 foot rollout).

Numerous owners with draggys- as well as professional car mags- all registered these times with calibrated measurements.


Tesla dishonestly uses 2 different measurements on the website to make the non-P cars look slower than they really are (they list all P models with rollout, and all non-Ps without it....AFAIK nobody else in the industry is dishonest in this way).

Post 5% update the AWD has put down ~3.9 a bunch of times from owners with at least one or two guys getting into the high 3.8x range (I have a pic of a draggy report of a 3.86 as the quickest I've seen).

The P has gotten into the very high 2.9x range...so again roughly 0.9 seconds quicker than the AWD.

A
I am not so sure about all that; my buddy with an AWD thinks my M3P feels bananas-faster than his car ...though admittedly before the latest power update.

I mean, 0.9 seconds is significantly quicker. Just not as much quicker as Teslas website would like you to believe.

2.9x, even high 2.9x, is insanely quick. Removing other Teslas and italian supercars costing hundreds of thousands you can probably count on one hand the # of other production cars that can do that (and half of em probably say "Porsche" somewhere and also cost 3-6 times more than the P3 does)

 

[Skotty]

I don’t think people understand the orders of magnitude it takes to keep getting faster. Going from a 6-second 0-60 to a 5, to a 4, to a 3... all completely different things. Once you get below 3, it starts getting absolutely insane. Diminishing returns and all that.

Also we should take a moment to appreciate the fact that here we are comparing a car that’s been out for ~2 years against seasoned veterans of the industry that have been refined over decades... imagine where we’ll be in 20 years.

At some point, it actually gets bad for the human body. The 3 to 4 second range seems fine, but in my experience, once you get under 3 seconds 0-60 (like a P100DL which I have had some rides in) the acceleration can actually make you dizzy. At some point, I imagine too much acceleration could cause you to pass out or worse. You probably need to be a good health to ride in a Roadster V2 at max acceleration.

 

[William On T]

So it's pretty evident that there's not many ICE cars that can take us from a dig - i.e. stopped at a light, etc.

I'd like to hear what others' experiences are toying with others from a roll. This is something I'm less confident about, since I know power decreases with SoC & because the car has only one gear... it could get a little wheezy at higher speeds, albeit it's still effing quick.

Second week I had my P3D- I absolutely vaporized a brand-new BMW M3 at a light (my former dream car & the brand that left me behind). It felt great. Not sure I'd have the same luck from a 70+ mph roll... Anyone have any experiences? Including SoC would be useful.

***Disclaimer***

Street racing is illegal & I fully condone it.

FWIW I'm not aware of any factory-stock production ICE vehicle, ever, that would beat an AWD model 3 from 30-70 using the magazine test methods for this.

And I mean just a regular AWD one...let alone a P.

The P did 30-70 in 2.9 before either 5% power bump.

The AWD non-P did 30-70 in 3.56 before either 5% bump, and 3.21 after the first but before the second (haven't seen 30-70 data post 2nd bump)

For reference, as of 2015 anyway, the quickest ICE vehicle that Car and Driver ever tested 30-70 were running 3.9 seconds. MUCH slower than either Model 3.

To the Extreme: The Quickest, Slowest, Thirstiest, Lightest—and Much More—Cars We Tested This Year

More context-
https://hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/f...rmance-data-and-complete-specs-1532365631.pdf

~$150,000 2018 ZR1 vs ~$300,000 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS

The ZR1 takes 4.2 30-70, the GT2 takes 4 flat.

Downshifting is slow

I just tested out the 30-70 of the stealth performance last night for you guys. 2.42 seconds

 

[StealthP3D]

There are still those who make ignorant speeches about how they would rather Uber the rest of their lives than drive in a Tesla ( from someone who had self admitted to never having even ridden in one)

That's funny! There are so many Tesla's on the road now and a lot of them drive for Uber. When he calls for an Uber, he's likely to get picked up by a Tesla that he's trying to avoid!

 

[SaloonGoon]

I don't have a lot of roll races under my belt lots of races from a dig though. Here is a 40 roll vs a 650ish hp mustang. He was reluctant to race and thought a roll race would be better. I let him pick the start speed. He still couldn't hook even on drag radials. It's been my experience that people are so worried about losing to an electric car they make some mistakes that cost them the race.

Was he running ET Street SS DRs? I have a 2015 Mustang GT that makes 714 rwhp, and I can attest to the SKETCHY acceleration of these cars when you add forced induction. I spin gears 1-3, and depending on ambient and quality of the running surface, spin fourth above 6K rpm.

Cant wait to get the P and some traction!!!!

 

[ambudriver03]

I saw a rumor on here that a totally “unrestricted” P3D would hit 60 in 2.6 seconds. Who knows.

Probably if they turned off thermal controls for an EXTREMELY short duration, it seems highly likely... with the 18" rims (no caps) I got a dragy down to 3.10 with 1 foot rollout, pretty in-line with what everyone else got... 11.8 on the quarter...

That ZERO to 'suspended license' is extremely quick...

 

[Knightshade]

At some point, it actually gets bad for the human body. The 3 to 4 second range seems fine, but in my experience, once you get under 3 seconds 0-60 (like a P100DL which I have had some rides in) the acceleration can actually make you dizzy. At some point, I imagine too much acceleration could cause you to pass out or worse. You probably need to be a good health to ride in a Roadster V2 at max acceleration.

... while it's true enough Gs will cause a human to pass it, it's a lot more of them than any production vehicle can produce. Like, a LOT a lot more.

I'm unaware of any production car that even hits 2gs (the really really quick ones are in the 1.x range... the P3D is not... I think the Dodge Demon at 1.8gs holds the current record)

A typical human can handle ~5gs before any concern for consciousness.

How quick is 5 gs? A top-fuel dragster can go from 0-100 MPH (not 60) in about 0.86 second which is just a little over 5gs.

 

[cOoTeR]

Was he running ET Street SS DRs? I have a 2015 Mustang GT that makes 714 rwhp, and I can attest to the SKETCHY acceleration of these cars when you add forced induction. I spin gears 1-3, and depending on ambient and quality of the running surface, spin fourth above 6K rpm.

Cant wait to get the P and some traction!!!!

He was on the Nitto 555R's I think.

 

[William On T]

Let me know if anyone wants me to test anything with my stealth performance. I have a dragy and have done a number of 0-60, 60-0 and 30-70 already, but if there is something you'd like to see tested let me know. I've created a youtube channel to post tests I do with my car, acceleration, braking, sound level, etc, so I will post all the results if you are curious. I can do anything up to ~80mph, as the speed limits around here are all 60mph and I don't want a felony...