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P3D Highway Range — Early Cautious Optimism

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by ForeverFree, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Supporting Member

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    Went dual motor for skiing and handling, but was disappointed about having to give up 8% range (308 vs. 334 on EPA testing cycle).

    Several TMC posters, though, cautioned not to worry too much too soon. They pointed out that EPA testing is dyno only, with no way to adjust for aero effects, other than a crude multiplier. They reasoned that with so such a high proportion of actual Tesla highway energy use going to overcome air resistance, and with AWD Model 3’s differing only modestly in weight (about one passenger’s worth) and motor friction (added freewheeling front motor), actual highway range might not be 8% lower than RWD. And, if you think about it, the multiplier multiplies the AWD’s lower dyno efficiency by a constant to imply lower aero efficiency, as well ... which makes no sense.

    My limited early experience leaves me cautiously optimistic on this front.

    Today, we took a 160-mile round trip from our house (elev 900) to the Mount Pinos trailhead (8300 feet) and back. A lot of interstate driving (74 mph, except in backups), plus rural and mountain highways (45-65 mph). Spirited, when appropriate. Aero caps off.

    Average energy use 236 Wh/mile. Which had us burn 160 “range miles” to cover a like actual distance.

    What really impressed me was the downhill efficiency. Zero energy used during a 50+ mile downhill stretch on the return. Elevation drop about 6000 feet ... a little over one vertical mile. That’s almost a 50-1 “glide ratio” ... a 2% grade that most high-end sailplanes would be proud of.

    Time and highway driving will tell the tale, but I’m now at least cautiously hopeful that the AWD range hit will prove smaller than many of us had feared.

    As more AWDs get delivered, I’m eager to hear what others discover.

    Fingers crossed!


    52260F5C-1022-4059-BA79-9161FCC69A53.jpeg
     
    • Informative x 32
    • Like x 9
  2. usofrob

    usofrob Member

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    Thanks for the info. Keep up the reporting. :)
     
  3. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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  4. Funkmobile

    Funkmobile Member

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    Sweet!
    One question: How does the regen affect the car going downhill? Specifically, does it slow you right down or can you maintain "highway" speeds?
     
  5. jdmasters

    jdmasters Member

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    I'm just impressed that you could keep your foot out of the accelerator enough to get a 236 over 130 miles. :)
     
  6. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Wow... negative energy usage over50+ miles.... that's awesome.

    I'd be interested in knowing how an S performs on both legs of that same trip.
     
  7. PhaseWhite

    PhaseWhite Member

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    @ForeverFree I'd be curious on your next trip what sort of range you can get with the aeros on? The extra efficiency and range in the smaller wheels with aeros was what led me to change my order to remove the 5K performance package.

    This is really promising news! It also shows the stark limitations of the EPA testing routine when evaluating EVs and real world range.
     
  8. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    You can modulate the regen with the go-pedal. Let off all the way and the car slows hard. Push on it a little and it will slow-down less. Push on it more and it will accelerate.
     
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  9. Funkmobile

    Funkmobile Member

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    Ah, so basically one pedal driving is like a pedal that is sort of like a clutch/gas/brake pedal all in one. There's a catch/breaking point that separates the go from the stop functions. The exact catch/breaking point is where the car maintains a constant speed. I also assume this catch/breaking point fluctuates depending on the incline?
     
  10. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    Exactly. There's also a point where you're in neutral. The power meter goes to the right when using power and to the left when generating power. When in the middle, you are coasting. When I give test drives, I tell people that the car doesn't coast. If you want to coast, you need to push on the pedal a little. That usually makes sense to them.
     
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  11. eric1856

    eric1856 Member

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    Thank you, @ForeverFree ! I have AWD non-P on order and have been going back and forth on if I should change to a RWD due to the fairly heavy expected range loss. I'm in Canada, in a region where we have to worry more about ice on the roads than anything else. Starting to feel a little better now, especially with you going 74MPH with no aeros.

    Will be very interesting to see as more stats come in, what the average will be.

    Thanks for your detailed analysis!
     
    • Like x 1
  12. CuriousG

    CuriousG Active Member

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    It may be just me but my driving has been a lot more efficient since my last firmware update. Don't know if they tweaked some driving behavior or just calculate how efficiency is calculated.

    Drove ~210mi yesterday with with ~98% of it on freeway. My lifetime is 246Wh/mi with over 15k miles 3LR. I usually have AP set to 75MPH. There wasn't a lot of stop and go traffic in the Bay Area yesterday too. When I got back home ended up averaging 229Wh/mi which is quite a bit better than my normal drives this distance. I'd be lucky to average 250Wh/mi with long freeway drives. With the weather so warm in my area, this should impact the efficiency too. I didn't notice any tailwind which would help the efficiency.
     
  13. eric1856

    eric1856 Member

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    Hi @CuriousG , what was your wheel config?
     
  14. CuriousG

    CuriousG Active Member

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    19" the upgraded rims.
     
  15. moridin2002

    moridin2002 Member

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    As far as I understand, that is incorrect. There are programmed road loads into the dyno testing equipment that account for things like aerodynamic loads.

    The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates

    While its possible that the road loads don't accurately account for all aero situations (particularly winds at yaw angles different than 0 degree - straight on), the tests should represent the differences between the vehicles fairly accurately.
     
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  16. VLTWGGN

    VLTWGGN Member

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    @ForeverFree

    What's your average Wh/mi on flat terrain at highway speed?
     
  17. NuclearPowered

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  18. omgwtfbyobbq

    omgwtfbyobbq Active Member

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    Nice! In my experience, the nut behind the wheel usually has a larger effect on mileage than anything else. With that said, the EPA's testing procedure uses whatever the actual coastdown coefficients are and tend to be fairly accurate.
     
  19. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Supporting Member

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    Still trying to get a number not contaminated by big hills, strong winds, or major slowdowns.

    Trying to filter all of that stuff out, I’d say 255 @ 74 mph. (Why 74? As a cop friend has told me, “Nine you’re fine, ten you’re mine!”)
     
    • Informative x 3
  20. cil0n

    cil0n Member

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    255 wh/mi is incredible. I'm hoping everyone's AWD experience is similar. Only time will tell.
     

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