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P85 modded to be a P85 w/Ludicrous

int32_t

Tesla Spotter
Nov 21, 2015
623
398
Calgary area, AB, Canada
The torque limit normally is just over 100Nm of regen torque. I've been able to up this to about 200Nm. I've also popped the power cap on regen, letting it put in as much power as the BMS permits (basically supercharger power levels). At higher speeds the torque increase doesn't help much, but the power cap lift does significantly, since on a highway off-ramp I can see triple digit kW regen. The added torque means it can maintain higher power for longer and at slower speeds. I've actually had to tweak it over time because regen could lock the rear wheels at low speeds with high torque. Pretty much can get down to 4 MPH with just regen, and pretty quickly.

For example, if I let completely off of the throttle with regen set to max while going about 20 MPH, it feels like I mashed the brakes in the car pretty good, and I get flung into my seat belt, which locks in place during the deceleration event.

I'm actually going to be undoing quite a few of my more complex modifications temporarily, aside from the power increase modifications, because I've found a minor design flaw in my custom control hardware that I need to fix. Mainly for safety reasons, since the failure mode could cause unpredictable behavior.
Yep, that answers my question. I guess I just wanted to know if you can slow down more (to a slower speed) with regen alone with your higher torque limit, to which the answer is yes.

So, another question -- if the battery can supercharge at triple-digit kW, and it apparently can also regen at that speed, why would Tesla make regen so weak? You can, after all, modulate the braking force by how much you let off the accelerator. What are your thoughts on this? Traction control should take care of any safety issues.
 

supratachophobia

Active Member
Sep 24, 2014
3,849
2,675
Columbus, Ohio
Yep, that answers my question. I guess I just wanted to know if you can slow down more (to a slower speed) with regen alone with your higher torque limit, to which the answer is yes.

So, another question -- if the battery can supercharge at triple-digit kW, and it apparently can also regen at that speed, why would Tesla make regen so weak? You can, after all, modulate the braking force by how much you let off the accelerator. What are your thoughts on this? Traction control should take care of any safety issues.
I imagine 2/3's of us would freak out pretty quickly if we lay down 4 strips of rubber at the bottom of every exit ramp....
 

int32_t

Tesla Spotter
Nov 21, 2015
623
398
Calgary area, AB, Canada
I imagine 2/3's of us would freak out pretty quickly if we lay down 4 strips of rubber at the bottom of every exit ramp....
But that's kinda my point. You don't stomp the brake on the exit ramp, you press it to achieve the braking force you need even though it has the potential to stop your car short. So the same thing would apply to the accelerator: it has the capacity to slow you down quickly, but normally you let off slowly to achieve a "controlled landing."

On second thoughts, perhaps the torque limit is to ensure a more-or-less consistent regen "experience" across SoC, since you can't supercharge a nearly-full battery. Never mind then. :rolleyes:
 

gjunky

Trifecta: Solar and both cars are EVs
Mar 26, 2012
1,247
405
Scottsdale, AZ
How would that enhanced regen work on wet or icy roads.... If it really locked the rear wheels, there is real danger that this could happen on all four wheels. I assume the ABS does not work on regen as the brakes are not touched....
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,262
3,952
NE
How would that enhanced regen work on wet or icy roads.... If it really locked the rear wheels, there is real danger that this could happen on all four wheels. I assume the ABS does not work on regen as the brakes are not touched....
Maybe wk057 can fix that too. Regen should have manual off, or at least auto disable on any slip or yaw angle.
 

supratachophobia

Active Member
Sep 24, 2014
3,849
2,675
Columbus, Ohio
But that's kinda my point. You don't stomp the brake on the exit ramp, you press it to achieve the braking force you need even though it has the potential to stop your car short. So the same thing would apply to the accelerator: it has the capacity to slow you down quickly, but normally you let off slowly to achieve a "controlled landing."

On second thoughts, perhaps the torque limit is to ensure a more-or-less consistent regen "experience" across SoC, since you can't supercharge a nearly-full battery. Never mind then. :rolleyes:
People are driving these cars through yoga studios, you are asking a lot of them....
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,187
12,928
NoVA
How would that enhanced regen work on wet or icy roads.... If it really locked the rear wheels, there is real danger that this could happen on all four wheels. I assume the ABS does not work on regen as the brakes are not touched....
Regen does use the same wheel speed sensors that ABS does to avoid lockup in it's default implementation.

I'm not sure if Jason's mods prevent that for some reason, or if the stronger regen more easily triggers that default behavior.
 

Bebop

Active Member
Jun 25, 2017
1,193
691
Midwest
So if this is technically possible on a single motor RWD P85. Would this not also be possible on say a Dual Motor non-performance car? I mean the new and current 75D can go to 4.1 seconds. I would imagine it would be possible to bring it down to say 3.5 or even 3.4?
 
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TIppy

Active Member
Jul 8, 2016
1,481
1,100
Tampa, FL
Found a video from brooks at drag times with his P100DL on a mustang awd dyno. They were running it in ludicrous+ mode. That upgrades the battery power to about 575 kw. So that's 575 * 1.341 * 0.805 = 620.7 motor shaft hp. At the wheels that should be 620.7 * 0.95 = 589.7 hp.
The dyno value they got was 588.8 hp.

That's from a car that's pulling 1850 amps from a pack that has 86 cells in parallel rather than 74.
 
Last edited:

wk057

Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,651
11,371
Hickory, NC, USA
Just going to throw this out there...

Jason Hughes on Twitter

2018-01-06%2014.27.04-1920.jpg


(Wasn't fully charged in this pic, obviously... about 60% actually... pic was right after completing the install)
 

wk057

Senior Tinkerer
Feb 23, 2014
5,651
11,371
Hickory, NC, USA
From a hardware standpoint, was this a straight swap or did you need to modify the cooling system or anything else?

It required the replacement top-ring piece for the high voltage connector.

It also requires some software changes and the hardware the module I built for the Pxx++ modification which, among other things, emulates a non-existant front drive unit to convince the car that it is dual motor.

It would be nothing for Tesla to actually produce firmware that works with the 100 pack in RWD cars, though, without any software or hardware mods.... but I don't see them doing it.
 

demundus

Active Member
Jul 5, 2015
1,289
825
Oceanside, CA
How did you get access to that super cool diag screen on the right center cluster?

It's a diag screen you can get when you are in developer mode (root for us non service folks). Next time you're in for service, ask them if they'll leave it up... as it doesn't go away if you display it (and then "log out" of developer mode)
 

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