TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

P85 vs. 85D

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by ToddRLockwood, May 3, 2015.

  1. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,263
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    I want to hear from previous P85 owners who now own an 85D... (not a P85+, and not a P85D)

    • Do you notice any difference in handing?

    • Does the suspension seem less sporty in the 85D or about the same?

    • Has torque-steer been an issue in the 85D?

    • Does available power feel about the same?

    • Did both of your cars have air suspension?

    • What size summer wheels were/are you using?
     
  2. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,744
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    There is a good Cnet on Cars (cnet.com) review of the D vs. the P85. They say more front end plow-understeer (not much) and predictable handling, but not as fun since you can't rotate the rear end at all. I purposely got the P85+ because I wanted RWD after years of owning AWD cars. I'm very happy with it. It feels solid as a rock in all circumstances and I can pop out the rear end if I am feeling spunky! From all that I have read and seen, the D is glued to the road like the tires are coated in superglue.
     
  3. arijaycomet

    arijaycomet Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    365
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    #3 arijaycomet, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    I've driven at this point EVERY version of the Tesla, except for the new 70D. I've put at least a few hundred miles on each version (except for the P85+ which I did only drive for about a day). But I had the pleasure of a small round trip in the P85 loaner I had one weekend. I now have an 85D daily driver, and have put a few thousand miles on it already. That being said....

    Handling/Suspension - Without a doubt the RWD fun of the P85 is missing from the 85D. You get more throttle controlled enjoyment from the P85, and it reminds you that it is a heavy but still rear driven car when driven hard. Comparatively, the 85D feels very stable, perhaps a bit less squirmy when the suspension is unsettled, but it is indeed less "fun" if that is your goal. Would I say it is less fun in a negative way? No. I happen to prefer AWD cars because of the optimal handing, but also living in the snow belt here in Ohio.

    Power feels VERY similar-- the P85+ that I drove recently was on the latest software and I recall feeling as though it was identical to my latest version 4.4-second 85D. I guess if you really juice it off the line you have the traction issue to deal with, though I always felt the RWD Tesla models made GREAT use of their traction. Acceleration feels very much similar.

    Both cars are going to feel similar in weight, have the same pros/cons of air suspension I suppose, etc. IMO the air suspension + 21" combo is the best for handling. Though I prefer 20s on my car, which is what I'm running. I still like the air, but more so due to Ohio roads. Lowering the factory steel suspension by adding alternate C-clip locations worked nicely, and gave my 85-RWD a lower center of gravity.

    What are you hoping to learn from others experiences? Are you cross shopping both options? I think the 85D is the better buy, for all conditions, better acceleration around corners (higher exit speed) etc. The only reason I'd personally ever consider a used P85 over a new 85D would be price, or being a RWD lover. And even then I'd urge the 85D, personally.

    EDIT- just saw you have a P85 now... so maybe you're considering an 85D upgrade? Either way, I'm a huge fan of the more neutral handing (less rear bias) of the 85D. But that is def personal preference and not a "better vs worse" characteristic..
     
  4. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,263
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    Thanks for that. I also love RWD and wondered if the handling dynamics would change with the D. Powering through turns in the P85 is quite nice. I have the earliest iteration of the P85 suspension. I've driven P85's that were built six months after mine, still in 2013, and they have a more solid feel. I'd consider trading up to a P85+, but I'm not crazy about getting into staggered wheels.
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    I haven't driven the 40/60, 70D, or 85D but I've driven every other variant of the LHD Model S (that I'm aware of).

    I know you didn't ask me (and frankly directly excluded some folks like me...), but I'll answer anyway.

    The P85D (even with my 19" wheels) feels absolutely planted. I expect the 85D feels the same w/r/t handling, but I haven't had a chance to try one yet.

    The P85 (Sig) feels "wiggly in the tail" even compared to the P85+, and the P85+ (loaners) have felt far less planted than the P85D (even with my 19" wheels). Some folks consider the wiggle "sporty" whereas, IMO, it's just "less in control"; that's not what I call "sporty" but YMMV of course.


    If you want to keep the feel of the P85 but get the "incremental upgrades", I was quoted by Tesla $3500 for that upgrade to my Sig. This isn't a + upgrade (which is ~$15k partial or ~$25k full) just newer tech of the P85 family. FYI.


    Random sidenote: If you're going to TMC Connect this year and bringing a 40/60, I'd love to have a chance to drive it.
     
  6. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,544
    Location:
    United States
    I wonder what this means for the future of the RWD Model S.

    It seems like many people like the handling characteristics of the P85/85+, but Tesla seems to want to reduce options in order to increase manufacturing efficiency. On the other hand, Tesla still has to make the big motors for the P85D, so it might not cost them much to keep offering the RWD 85.
     
  7. vvanders

    vvanders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Test drove a P85 then ordered an 85D just under 5k miles now if that counts:

    • Do you notice any difference in handing?
    But more oversteer like mentioned in the P85, 85D is completely "planted" and incredibly stable even in adverse conditions(hydroplane, etc).

    • Does the suspension seem less sporty in the 85D or about the same?
    I didn't notice a difference but I only had the test drive w/ P85.

    • Has torque-steer been an issue in the 85D?
    Nope, incredibly neutral.

    • Does available power feel about the same?
    After the 6.2 update, yes. 6.2 update was a huge jump in usable power.

    • Did both of your cars have air suspension?
    Yep

    • What size summer wheels were/are you using?
    Testdrive was 21", I have 19" for less tire wear and durability.
     
  8. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Boston
    #8 3mp_kwh, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Signature cars had the early sub-frame, which won't accept updated lower control arms. So, I am curious what comes with that $3,500 quote? Hint, I am hoping your answer amounts to old arms remanufactured for stiffer bushings, but even then the newer mount points may have addressed camber issues. Confused. Sorry for going OT.
     
  9. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,744
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    Yes, there is definitely a "price" to be paid for the staggered setup. I simply could not resist when buying the car. I still love them and think they really make the car look great. But I have advised others to not be as foolish as I. One day I might go to 20's. The 19's just don't do it for me. But I live in on the coast in Central CA, where it's always sunny and 70. So I don't have to worry about the roads in NE, from whence I came, many years ago!

     
  10. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    Correction (to my post): $3,700 + tax
    Includes:
    • Rear subframe replacement with latest revision
    • Rear upper control arm replacement with latest revision
    • Rear lower control arm replacement with latest revision

    The option was available in mid-January, 2015 (and might have been changed since then...) but I opted to leave my Sig as is for the time being.
     
  11. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    1,611
    Location:
    New York
    I'd love to see a P85 85D acceleration video with both cars side by side or perhaps a 0-60 test of both cars under the same conditions.
     
  12. vvanders

    vvanders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Allright, just spent today dropping off my 85D at the Service center to deal with a few minor things(mostly just me being an idiot about the windshield spray). However as a loaner I got a ~50k vin P85. Due to the hour+ distance I live from the SC I got to spend over 3 hours with the car directly from the 85D giving me a much better frame of reference.

    Things that jumped out to me that I forgot:
    -85D has a definite motor whine while P85 is silent. I like the whine, sounds like a warp drive but I know it bothers some people.
    -P85 might have the edge in acceleration but they feel *really* close in total power. P85 seems to have a bit more torque at the mid-high end but I doubt I'd notice anything if I didn't drive them one after another.
    -P85 is much more squirrelly than I remember. Drove back in some moderate-heavy rain(hello PNW) and was very apparent that things could get out of control quickly if I didn't pay attention. In contrast the 85D is rock solid, almost on rails when handling. Breser's initial 85D impressions are right on the mark, the 85D just feels a bit more refined.
    -I *really* missed TACC more than I thought I would. Soon as a hit rush-hour traffic I was wishing for an autopilot capable car. I can't stress how much of a difference this makes in slogging through traffic.

    Obviously I lean towards the 85D being a bit biased. I'm not sure if factors in but the range is another huge plus in my book, I had trouble keeping the P85 under 370 wH/MI and I clock in just at 300 wH/MI on the 85D.
     

Share This Page