P85+ vs P85 Loaner Experience

[simplesolar]

I had the P85+ for about a month now with 2,800 miles. Took it in service in yesterday for some minor alignment stuff from the factory. Got a brand in a new P85 loaner car with 25 miles and put around 300 miles in 2 days. I figure I give a fair comparison between the two since I haven't driven the p85 except on the test drives previously.

1) Acceleration:
P85 feels quicker due to the softer suspension. When you step on the gas pedal, the whole car lurches back and it feels like a rocket launch. P85+ not as much due to the firmer suspension in rear. 0-60 feels about the same. P85 tends to lose traction when I step on it from 30-35 mph, P85+ never did so.

2) Handling:
P85 is soft, when you take a corner hard. You can feel the body rolling towards one side. Sitting in the car in a high corner speed feels like I am sliding all over the place in the seat. I feel the P85 needs more bolstering on the seat more than the P85+ due to more body roll. Higher speed maneuvering feels unsafe. Driving at speed 70-80mph the car feels squirmy and loose. It feels like its floating. P85+ feels planted and tight. P85 freeway behavior feels like an american car, P85+ more like a german car. Also noticed during high speed corners, traction control comes on more frequent than the p85+ probably due to the less sticky tires. The p85 loaner had continental tires.

3) Ride Quality and tire noise
P85 is definitely more comfortable over road imperfections. It is also quieter both highway speed and normal speed. The shocks feel more compliant and forgiving over bumps compare to than the P85+.

4) Steering feel.
The sport setting steering on the P85 is tight and solid. The p85+ on sport setting feels artificially heavy and harder to drive compare to the P85. Not sure why, but maybe due to the tires? I prefer sport steering feel of the P85, and standard on the P85+. P85 feels more accurate.

Conclusion: I feel the P85+ should have been the P85 to begin with. If I were debating between a P85 and S85, I would just buy the S85 or step up and get the P85+. The acceleration difference between P85 and S85 probably gets old after 1 month, but the handling aspect of the p85+ is definitely worth the upgrade.

My background in cars include owning and still own: 911 turbo, bmw m3, couple mitsubishi evo, and subaru brz. Driven probably all the sports car out there as well. I do couple track events a year so I am very particular on a car's handling ability.

 

[bint2k]

thanks for the review, always helpful for people who haven't had the chance to sit behind the wheel

 

[Owner]

I just drove a + for 4 days and pretty much came to the same general conclusion. Either go S85 or +. + if you want to drive aggressively regularly and S if you aren't or like a lot of road trips where comfort is perhaps a bit more important.

I'm going to write up a long blog post tomorrow with more details.

 

[simplesolar]

What Tesla should have implemented is adjustable dampening. I have it on my 2011 Cayenne turbo and it makes a huge difference. When I want it comfortable I can just set it to comfort mode, if I feel like driving it sporty I can set it to sport mode and it will tighten the dampening and lower it self for lower center of gravity.

 

[Seven7]

What tires did the loaner car come with?

 

[Raven5000]

I had the P85+ for about a month now with 2,800 miles. Took it in service in yesterday for some minor alignment stuff from the factory. Got a brand in a new P85 loaner car with 25 miles and put around 300 miles in 2 days. I figure I give a fair comparison between the two since I haven't driven the p85 except on the test drives previously.

1) Acceleration:
P85 feels quicker due to the softer suspension. When you step on the gas pedal, the whole car lurches back and it feels like a rocket launch. P85+ not as much due to the firmer suspension in rear. 0-60 feels about the same. P85 tends to lose traction when I step on it from 30-35 mph, P85+ never did so.

2) Handling:
P85 is soft, when you take a corner hard. You can feel the body rolling towards one side. Sitting in the car in a high corner speed feels like I am sliding all over the place in the seat. I feel the P85 needs more bolstering on the seat more than the P85+ due to more body roll. Higher speed maneuvering feels unsafe. Driving at speed 70-80mph the car feels squirmy and loose. It feels like its floating. P85+ feels planted and tight. P85 freeway behavior feels like an american car, P85+ more like a german car. Also noticed during high speed corners, traction control comes on more frequent than the p85+ probably due to the less sticky tires. The p85 loaner had continental tires.

3) Ride Quality and tire noise
P85 is definitely more comfortable over road imperfections. It is also quieter both highway speed and normal speed. The shocks feel more compliant and forgiving over bumps compare to than the P85+.

4) Steering feel.
The sport setting steering on the P85 is tight and solid. The p85+ on sport setting feels artificially heavy and harder to drive compare to the P85. Not sure why, but maybe due to the tires? I prefer sport steering feel of the P85, and standard on the P85+. P85 feels more accurate.

Conclusion: I feel the P85+ should have been the P85 to begin with. If I were debating between a P85 and S85, I would just buy the S85 or step up and get the P85+. The acceleration difference between P85 and S85 probably gets old after 1 month, but the handling aspect of the p85+ is definitely worth the upgrade.

My background in cars include owning and still own: 911 turbo, bmw m3, couple mitsubishi evo, and subaru brz. Driven probably all the sports car out there as well. I do couple track events a year so I am very particular on a car's handling ability.

I currently have a P85+ loaner, I own a P85. Honestly for me to upgrade to the + isnt enough of a difference. I do like the handling better but I miss the smoothness and quietness of my car. The + seems to be alot noisier. I can hear the motor alot more and the road a lot more. Maybe theyll fix this with a retro fit. I dont know why you can't have the best of both worlds. I wonder if I did a retro fit suspension on my car if it would still be smooth and quiet? Anyway just my opinion.

 

[simplesolar]

loaner had continentals. I believe a simple sway bar replacement might tighten up the P85. After driving my P85+ again, I do realize that it is a lot nosier probably due to the stiffer bushings, but it is still the quietest car I own so no complaints from me.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have a Sig P85. I've been driving a loaner P85+ for 1 1/2 weeks (700ish miles).

My perspective - the P85+ feels "tighter", but it was handed to me with 20 miles on it - and it probably should.

I do agree that on the Continentals, it feels ... what's the word ... "rolly" ? I think the reason is less suspension related and more tire related, though.

I did not experience the steering feel -- they feel the same to me on "sport" setting.

Road noise on the P85+ was surprisingly *loud* compared to the P85... that was annoying.

Overall, I do like the way the P85+ feels, but there's not enough difference from my perspective to justify paying for the upgrade. In fact, if I had to choose between keeping my 10k mile Sig P85 or swapping it for the brand new P85+ at no cost, I'd choose my Sig any day. The dash materials are so much better (leather on the lower dash especially), the cupholders have fingers to hold my bottles and cans, and the color -- oh, the beautiful color!

And if you want to feel like a car is "floating", try my '65 Pontiac GTO with original-spec redline tires (B.F. Goodrich Silvertown 7.75-14 bias-ply, equiv. 195/85R14, 4.5" tread width) sometime. It's like driving a dining room table mounted on swivel casters. And if the road is just the slightest bit damp, the car is all over the place.

 

[brianman]

Overall, I do like the way the P85+ feels, but there's not enough difference from my perspective to justify paying for the upgrade. In fact, if I had to choose between keeping my 10k mile Sig P85 or swapping it for the brand new P85+ at no cost, I'd choose my Sig any day. The dash materials are so much better (leather on the lower dash especially), the cupholders have fingers to hold my bottles and cans, and the color -- oh, the beautiful color!

Let's level the playing field a bit. If you were "late" to the party and thus had no (Signature) vehicle yet, would you be ordering the + option when buying a "late 2013" Model S?

 

[FlasherZ]

Let's level the playing field a bit. If you were "late" to the party and thus had no (Signature) vehicle yet, would you be ordering the + option when buying a "late 2013" Model S?

Given the way the two drive, I would not pay the additional grumble-thousands more for the + option. It's nice but not that nice.

 

[Cutwolf]

So torn.

Part of me realizes I don't need the P85 (or the P85+, especially). It's going to be my daily driver (actually, my SO will be driving it more than I will -- she drives to work, I take public transportation). And really, when am I really going to have a chance to show off that wicked acceleration in the real world?

On the other hand, the first time I am at a stop light with clear road ahead of me and some ricer or some frat boy in a mommy-bought BMW rolls up next to me and revs his engine, I know I'll hate not having the power of 4.2 0-60.

 

[xray]

On the other hand, the first time I am at a stop light with clear road ahead of me and some ricer or some frat boy in a mommy-bought BMW rolls up next to me and revs his engine, I know I'll hate not having the power of 4.2 0-60.

If this scenario is important to you, at least get the P85. I'm not sure I what I would do between P85 and P85+, since that wasn't a choice for me. Seems like we have a healthy debate going on in this thread.

 

[simplesolar]

YOLO! Those few times is definitely worth it in my books.

So torn.

Part of me realizes I don't need the P85 (or the P85+, especially). It's going to be my daily driver (actually, my SO will be driving it more than I will -- she drives to work, I take public transportation). And really, when am I really going to have a chance to show off that wicked acceleration in the real world?

On the other hand, the first time I am at a stop light with clear road ahead of me and some ricer or some frat boy in a mommy-bought BMW rolls up next to me and revs his engine, I know I'll hate not having the power of 4.2 0-60.

 

[Cutwolf]

If this scenario is important to you, at least get the P85. I'm not sure I what I would do between P85 and P85+, since that wasn't a choice for me. Seems like we have a healthy debate going on in this thread.

Not that it's important to me always and in the abstract, but in a given moment....

I'd go P85, but does the + make it more or less suitable for a daily driver in terms of ride comfort at normal highway speeds?

 

[brianman]

does the + make it more or less suitable for a daily driver in terms of ride comfort at normal highway speeds?

My anecdotal (read: TMC) understanding is that the opposite is true.
My personal experience is that I like them both.

 

[Cutwolf]

My anecdotal (read: TMC) understanding is that the opposite is true.
My personal experience is that I like them both.

The opposite of which? I said "more or less suitable" :biggrin:

 

[brianman]

The opposite of which? I said "more or less suitable" :biggrin:

Sorry, I skimmed to quickly.

I think my mind translated "more or less suitable" to "suitable" which is perhaps not what you meant.

So let's try this again...

does the + make it more suitable for a daily driver in terms of ride comfort at normal highway speeds?

My anecdotal (read: TMC) understanding is that the opposite is true.
My personal experience is that I like them both.

 

[Cutwolf]

Sorry, I skimmed to quickly.

I think my mind translated "more or less suitable" to "suitable" which is perhaps not what you meant.

So let's try this again...


My anecdotal (read: TMC) understanding is that the opposite is true.
My personal experience is that I like them both.

Thanks bud. Appreciate it.