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P85 with 285s on rear made a bigger than expected difference

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by gimp_dad, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Yesterday I finally got my TSW Nurberbrings 21x9" front, 21x10" rear with Hankook V12s in 245/35/21 front and 285/30/21 rear. Sorry no pictures yet. Just haven't had a chance to do it. Thanks to many on this board who have helped with important info that was essential in getting this mostly right.

    Many may be aware that I have been pretty vocal about suspension slop in my P85 with air suspension compared to a similar P85 without air suspension (exact same tires and rims as mine) and a P85+ with air suspension (both of which I have driven for several days here in CA).

    Well, the short of it is that this wheel tire setup had a much bigger positive impact than I expected.

    The most notable issue with the stock 21" setup was when accelerating hard out of a corner. There was always a major clunk, momentary lunge and instantaneous loss of power all of which totally destroyed the feel of cornering under power and took the wind out of the cornering longitudinal attitude and the acceleration. In short, it destroyed the potential thrill big time when trying to punch it on an on ramp with a turn :-(

    Those of us who have driven performance cars on a track know that exiting the apex of the turn is key to lap times and the delivery of power during the process is the tool the driver has at his/her disposal. Solving this fundamental flaw is key.

    The feeling is totally different now. Definitely not at the level of the P85+ but the significant increase in rear width (and probably the stiffer tires; I had the 21" contis) smoothes out the awkwardness and delivery of power to the point that it is actually exciting (like I always thought it would be). Furthermore, it is now possible to dial in over steer which was previously not possible because the traction control or stability control (not sure which) would just kill the power making it impossible to "dial" anything but slowness and heavy-handed under steer.

    That was the good news. The bad news is that I am getting a little bit of rubbing on the front tires when in reverse with the steering wheel all the way cranked to one side. I had heard of others having this same issue with the Hankooks in OEM size like this even on standard 21" rims so not sure what to do about it. I think I am going to live with it for now and move to PS2s when these tires wear out. I expect performance to be even better at that point.

    And, of course, it is nice to the know that the rear 285s fit with no rubbing and work flawlessly. I can't believe how much better this car looks with wider rear tires. The 245s just look wrong on such a wide heavy car, especially when cruising lowered on the highway (I live in the CA bay area so I see more MSes than Priuses on the highway). This was always the comment that my 20-somthing sons would make when admiring the beauty of my model S -- "if only the rear tires were not so narrow"...

    I should also say that the Sunnyvale Service Center was super helpful and got the new TPMS sensors paired within minutes of my arrival at their store. Lots of positive comments by the staff about the wheel and tire setup as well.

    Anyway, just wanted to share my initial feedback. Pictures to follow.
     
  2. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Once you've had it a little while, would you comment on any energy consumption differences between the new and old setups? I'm curious how well the Hankooks stack up to the Contis, and what the impact of the larger rears is. It won't really be possible to separate those two things out, but it would still be interesting.

    Congrats on the improved handling!
     
  3. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke Model S P85DL

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    Good to read your positive report, I will get 285 rears on my P85 this Saturday (Vossen CV4's, only 20" though).
     
  4. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Thanks for sharing, gimp_dad.

    I look forward to seeing some glamour shots of the wide rear wheels.
     
  5. gbdesai

    gbdesai Member

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    In case you want another data point, I have the 20" TSWs (9" front, 10" back) with PSSs at 255 front, 285 back and my. Average utilization is around 350 for the past 1,000 miles on them. Highway only is closer to 280.
     
  6. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    Now you've got me wishing that I got a wider set of rear wheels... Oh well I guess I'll just put 255's on my 19x8.5's and call it a day.
     
  7. Zextraterrestrial

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    Go with some stickier fronts and you will be amazed at the difference in turning capabilities of the car. I have hankooks on 21" for daily but Re-11s on a 19" for fun, waaaay better cornering I see 1.2 - 1.3 g cornering on the 19"s vs .9g or so on the 21"s If I recall the 21"s correctly
     
  8. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    I hear you Zextra. Definitely planning to move up from here in the future. Rubber makes an amazing difference. Not going to go to track tires since I don't plan on auto crossing or tracking this car (waiting for the gen7 Z06 Corvette for that) but stickier tires are going to be next.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've got to admit that I am pretty surprised how well the stagger setup worked out from a driving dynamics point of view. Highly recommended. Since the P85 has plenty of torque and power it can fully take advantage of the wider tires during power-on cornering. And I am happy to see that the control mechanisms and suspension don't get in the way (any more than they already did).

    - - - Updated - - -

    These Hankooks are pretty hard so even though they are wider in back I don't expect to lose range (except because of having too much fun :)). The only time I ever come close to driving for range is my morning commute which is mostly traffic limited. In that case I generally end up between 250 and 270 Wh/mi depending on lights, traffic, etc.. Today was 264 if I remember correctly. I think it was pretty similar overall. Note that my lifetime average is almost 350 though. This is not a Prius and I don't drive it like one.
     
  9. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Thanks! That's better than I expected.

    Actually, I might make a thread on this. I know that certain tires, like Bridgestone's Pole Positions have extremely high rolling resistance. Might be good to keep a record with members thoughts as people start replacing tires.
     
  10. Zextraterrestrial

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  11. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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  12. DIL

    DIL Member

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    still waiting on pics!
     
  13. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Here are some quick pics. Not a great photographer. Sorry it is so dark under to car because it makes it hard to fully appreciate the visual appearance of the wider rear tires.

    tsw4.jpg tsw5.jpg tsw1.jpg tsw2.jpg tsw3.jpg
     
  14. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    Now we are talking rubber! Thanks for the pics.
     
  15. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Yea. Now I just need the P+ lower a-arms...
     
  16. Dreamin

    Dreamin Member

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    Great looking wheels! And 25mm front offset looks fine. Fingers-crossed that the TPMS' pair with the car.
     
  17. gimp_dad

    gimp_dad Member

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    Yea. I like the 25mm offset up front with the 9" rims. The TPMS sensors have already been paired but I ended buying factory TPMS sensors from the Tesla store so it isn't surprising that they worked. The third party ones that had been ordered by America's Tire had not arrived and were the gating item so I killed two birds with one stone at the cost of an extra $25 per tire.
     
  18. simplesolar

    simplesolar Member

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    looks nice! I have similar setup but in 20's (255/40/25 and 285/35/20). My consumption went up around 20kwh. 285 in the rear looks way better, going to try 295 next time.
     
  19. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Why aren't you sticking with the sticky Re-11s for daily use? I just have the stock 19" wheels - sounds like an upgrade to Re-11s would make a difference? What I notice on cornering is under steer - I have to fight the car a bit on fast tight corners. And body roll.
     
  20. David Rhee

    David Rhee Member

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    Great post! I've been curious about placing wider tires in the rear. I will be doing exactly the same thing come spring!
     

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