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P85D and P90D horsepower disagreement
- Thread starter MuppetOwl
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
http://speautomotive.com/SPEA_CD/SPEA2009/pdf/KEY/K4.pdf
See page 14. The 3rd layer (non-woven glass) comprises about 75% of the thickness of the panel.
See page 14. The 3rd layer (non-woven glass) comprises about 75% of the thickness of the panel.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Actually you remember incorrectly. This was posted on the Tesla Motors website, and has been posted in the TMC forums many times since then:
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"The P85D top speed is currently electronically-limited to 130 mph. In the coming months, we will be able to upgrade the car free of charge to enable a 155 mph top speed. This free update will be available for the lifetime of the car (not limited to the first owner). Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date. In other words, the car will be better than you experienced. This free upgrade will be rolled out in the next few months, once full validation is complete."
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This cannot be quoted enough times. Especially now since ot seems this is indeed what is now being offered as a paying option as lud-mode
Kilowatt
Member
+1 on that!
After reading the entire thread I must say that this summarizes the situation in an excellent way!
Tesla Motors should really consider offering the upgrade to existing P85D owners for free. That would put them back on track in terms of trust from the owners community and not seeming to be too hungry for more cash when an "opportunity" comes to charge a few extra bucks. As far as I know they are currently doing pretty ok and don't actually need the money. As far as the $5000 for the upgrade goes - it sounds overpriced to me anyway if it's only fuse hardware.
I would like the P85+ hardware for free then since that came out 6 months after my car was delivered. If we are asking for free things.
Did the OTA update provide zero benefit above 60mph or was it just so small it wasn't what people were expecting?
Did the OTA update provide zero benefit above 60mph or was it just so small it wasn't what people were expecting?
From what I witnessed all that was done was the 0.1s reduction in 0-60times. 1/4-mile times did not improve on top of that 0.1s from watching numerous dragvideos..
I believe it is 99% certain that this update was never released and that we are now seeing it incorporated into the physical ludicruous-upgrade instead. I also supsect that is the reason for the "discount" for P85D owners as compared to the cost for new purchase of P90D...
Very shady tactics from Tesla.
My assumption is that they believed it would be free when they made those statements and discovered that they were seeing fuse and/or contactor failures at the increased power drain. I'm sort of torn about this. I understand those that are upset, but I'm not sure telling us something that they believe to be true at the time constitutes a promise or commitment. It is unfortunate that they couldn't deliver this for free, but I personally prefer them to give us glimpses of the future, even if they turn out not to actually happen.
TBH, there are at least two "features" that they have discussed that I discounted immediately as improbable. I'm not convinced that the car will ever be able to drop you off and steer itself unattended into a parking space nor am I convinced that they will ever implement the auto-connecting snake charging cord. I suppose at some point Tesla will have to become boring and not tell us about future features until they are in production, but I'll be sorry when that day comes.
No but but those who place orders prior to Tesla formally removing the 691 hp claim didn't received the car they paid for. They received a car that might make 555 hp at 100% SOC before any dc-dc conversion lossses or motor losses(we don't include the rest of the drive train because other manufacturers only rate at the motor shaft).
Even the Ludicrous upgrade, if they keep the same fuse margin moving from 1300 to 1500 amps will only make 640 hp at the battery.
So the difference is you got what you paid for even though something else was available shortly after. P85D orders placed prior to the spec changing didn't get what they paid for. This group of owners feel like they already paid for the upgrade. No not the promise of 0-60 in 2.8 seconds which I could care or less about but the promise of a car that can accelerate from 50-70 like a car that has 1 hp for every 7 lbs vs 1 hp for every 9 lbs like it actually is.
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Yes, speculation, but I think we've all had the same thought.
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So you've never paid for something that turned out not be be what was advertised? You just put up and shut up and walked away? I worked hard for my money and I expected to get what I paid for. Is that entitlement? Yes, but not the rich brat kind where everything is handed to them on a silver platter.
I could argue Tesla promised a 'performance' Model S with sports car handling as well. The P85 does not drive like an M5 or performance car on corners.
Did Tesla say 691hp at wheels? I realize what they did was misleading by talking about combined motor output. The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times were known at purchase I believe.
Free upgrade isn't going to happen because as owners, we are just too loyal and we will end up paying for it if we really want it. Tesla consistently is aware and spends (sometimes squanders) our goodwill to pay for oversights, mistakes, and delays. They will continue to do this because they can, or until that goodwill has dried up because it doesn't count against them on either the GAAP or Non-GAAP books.
You need to know that as an owner so you can use discernment when they make an announcement. I do not believe they actively try to make mistakes, but the above way is how they deal with those mistakes. All that said, I'm in it to win it. I have the car I paid for, which is the car I ordered, with the features available at the time. I did not pay ahead of time for anything that was promised in the future.
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Was anyone expecting 6921 hp at the wheels? I wasn't I was expecting 691 hp at the motor shaft. Heck, I'll even take 691 at the battery before any losses and still call it good. The P85D didn't even manage that at 100%. The highest theoretical it ever got at 100% SOC is 414KW(550hp) before any losses. It will have some losses by the time it hits the motor shaft which is where other manufactures specify hp. Tesla understated the horsepower on every other model S variant as proven on Dynos. Yet they overstated it on the P85D...by a lot.
Tesla made a specific promise of hp which directly implies at least a certain passing speed from 50 to 90 in a car with a specific weight which Tesla isn't even close to without it's new Inconel contactors and e-fuse.
I don't recall Tesla claiming that the MS handled better than the M5. Saying that they promised a car with sports car handling doesn't imply to me that they're making a comparison with any car for that matter. It's completely unqualified and not even an unqualified comparison to a specific car but not even compared to any car. Or is this wrong? Did they make a specific handling promise that it would be as good or better than some other car in a handling metric such a track time for a specific track using the same driver or a specific driver? They made skidpad promises with certain suspension, tire, and wheel setups which as far as I recall they meet or are very very close. Even then, verifying skidpad specs requires a driver with skill. Accelerating from 50-70 in a car that has x weight with y horsepower doesn't, especially when that car is an automatic or only has one gear.
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