TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

P85D AutoPilot flaws in snow

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by DEinspanjer, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. DEinspanjer

    DEinspanjer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    I'm running with the standard 19" on my new P85D. Traction has been great, but I've found that the snowy weather really wreaks havoc with some of the autopilot features.

    The lane departure warning frequently goes off due to snow on the road even if I'm clearly in the middle of a lane.

    The parking sensors can easily get snow on or near them which causes them to blare the red stop warning whenever I am coming to a stop or starting to move again. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any option to turn this alert off or silence it.

    The cruise control will intermittently stop working. Sometimes for minutes, sometimes for half an hour or so. When I try to engage it, it just says "Cruise not available". I've reported this problem to support as it might be an actual technical issue rather than just inclement weather.

    I've had the collision warning go off a couple of times when there was no clear danger. Both times, there were snow banks near by, with either my car or a car in front of me in the process of turning. I suspect it got confused by the snow bank and thought the car was closer or in a different position.
     
  2. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,842
    Location:
    Portland, Maine, USA
    You should send a message to ownership (at) teslamotors.com about these issues. As one wit put it, everything that's not quite right about the Model S can be traced back to it being designed in California.
     
  3. shelbri

    shelbri Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    Sandy Hook, CT
    I have same issue with parking sensor and snow on the bumper. I can turn off the audible alarm but that isn't the point. It just doesn't work well when snow is present.

    I've also had the charge port door frozen shut and needed some manual persuasion.

    Minor issues with cold winter driving.
     
  4. iadbound

    iadbound Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    637
    Location:
    No. VA
    Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Tesla say that TACC, etc. were not designed to be used in snowy/bad weather? That said, I agree that there needs to be a way to turn off the parking sensors in such circumstances.
     
  5. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    DON'T USE TACC/AUTOPILOT IN SNOW. or any other non-dry weather for that matter. says so right in the directions. it's not a software bug.



    tacc.jpg
     
  6. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    Robert - I thought there was a post here that ownership@ had closed and now recommended using the service email address...
     
  7. Subhuman

    Subhuman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    United States
    #7 Subhuman, Feb 18, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
    How do all other car brands handle sensors covered with snow. Seem like this would be a pretty common issue. I agree that TACC is not intended or designed to be used during snow but it should default to a standard cruise control if TACC is unavailable. The collision warning going off because of a snow bank is especially concerning because once they implement collision avoidance (auto braking) this could led to an accident if the car slams on the brake for no reason. The car needs to be smart enough to turn all off these features and alert the driver that it is deactivated. I don't want to have to manually turn everything off whenever it snows.
     
  8. DEinspanjer

    DEinspanjer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    I am aware of the warning about not using TACC in adverse weather conditions. Most of the times it cut out have been on clear and dry but cold highways.

    Even if the TACC was shutting off due to adverse conditions, I think it would only make sense for it to say *why* it is shutting off. That would help drivers like me who are sitting there frustrated as they are 15 minutes into a highway trip when it suddenly dies for no apparent reason.
     
  9. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    I asked the same question in another thread and the response (from owners with other cars equipped with these systems) was that their other cars also have the same issues. it's not really rocket science, theres only so much your system can do when the sensors are caked over with layers of mud and ice and snow etc.
     
  10. drsaab

    drsaab Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    208
    Location:
    VA
    Cruise not available is usually a Seat belt not buckled.

    Cruise disabled is when snow etc makes it unusable. It will also say drivers assistance unavailable.
     
  11. Majerus

    Majerus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Illinois
    #11 Majerus, Feb 18, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
    Should go to servicehelpna (at) teslamotors.com , below is the email I received a while ago.

    Hello majerus,



    Yes please send all future feature requests to this address.



    Best regards,

    removed name| Technical Support Specialist
    45500 Fremont Blvd | Fremont, CA 94538
    1-877-79-TESLA | ServiceHelpNA(at)TeslaMotors.com

    For a list of your local service centers, please press here:

    Find Us
     
  12. BerTX

    BerTX Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Texas/Washington
    Every cruise control I have ever read the instructions for warns that it is unsafe to use cruise control in adverse weather conditions. Has nothing to do with adaptive features.
     
  13. Subhuman

    Subhuman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    United States
    There are many situations where the front of the car maybe covered in snow or ice and the roads are perfectly safe. I drive 100 miles round to work everyday on a wide open interstate and I would not be happy if I couldn't use cruise control due to a sensor or the radar being covered with snow or ice yet the roads are perfectly fine. It is not always as easier as brushing off the snow either. You can't brush off an 1/2 inch thick layer of ice. Maybe a simple solution to the problem would be to actually heat the sensors and radar just like mirrors or wiper nozzles. Whether enough heat could be generated to actually melt anything I have no idea.
     
  14. green1

    green1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,105
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    The way other manufacturers do it is the same as Tesla. They tell you NEVER to use cruise control when the roads aren't clear.
    This is also taught in every driver's ed course I've ever heard of.

    Cruise control is a fair weather feature. Not for use for about half the year around here. (This is also why I don't expect self driving cars to replace human drivers any time soon)
     
  15. DEinspanjer

    DEinspanjer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    Can you share where you got that info? I've never seen a cruise disabled message, but then, as I said, I haven't tried to use it in bad conditions.
    Every time it has said cruise not available, I've been the only one in the car, the passenger seat was empty, and I always wear my seatbelt. I'd suspect maybe the sensor for my belt malfunctioning, but it seems unusual that it would not also trigger the chiming and seatbelt indicator light.
     
  16. drsaab

    drsaab Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    208
    Location:
    VA
    I have learned from experience with multiple experiences in both situations on my car.

    Disabled when cold and frozen.

    And not available everytime drivers belt is unbuckled.
     
  17. BerTX

    BerTX Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Texas/Washington
    I know you are a safe driver and think that the warnings about using cruise control in bad weather or adverse conditions don't apply to you. I have a niece who thinks the same thing about texting while driving.
     
  18. DEinspanjer

    DEinspanjer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    189
    Location:
    Salem, NH
    BerTX, I understand you have strong feelings about anyone potentially endangering themselves and others by disregarding safety warnings, but please reread the message you quoted in your reply. He doesn't say he wants cruise control (or TACC) to function when the roads are unsafe. I am not asking for that either. He specifically states he would not be happy if he couldn't use cruise control when the roads are perfectly fine.

    In New England, it is quite common to have lots of accumulated snow, ice, and slush around driveways and tertiary roads while the secondary and primary roads and the highways are clear and dry. Most of the times I've had cruise and TACC shut off has been during these clean highway or primary road conditions. It also happened once during rainfall that I would consider light or medium rather than heavy as visibility was not noticeably hampered.

    I'll also mention again, in the case that the cruise shutting off is because the car is detecting unsafe driving conditions, it would be very helpful for it to say so in the message rather than just "Cruise not available". At least then I'd know what it thinks is going on. And if the roads are clear and dry, I could take a picture and take it up with Tesla Service to investigate why it is getting confused.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Robert.Boston do you think you could tweak the title of this thread to maybe prevent some of the knee-jerk reactions? I'm thinking something along the lines of:
    Collision and proximity sensor issues in wintery conditions, and TACC shutdown when roads are clear

    Meh.. it is long, but maybe you have a better idea?
     
  19. Subhuman

    Subhuman Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    United States
    #19 Subhuman, Feb 19, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
    Now I don't know your background anymore than you know my background so first of all I think your comment is unwarranted and not very constructive. I am not advocating using cruise control in adverse weather conditions and my posts reflect that. Additionally, based on your listed locations, you probably do not drive in the snow belt very often and truly don't understand a situation that a snow/ice covered car maybe traveling on a perfectly safe road. Similar to how people say Tesla missed a few design elements because the car was designed in California (windshield defroster and wheel well liners come to mind). DEinspanjer explains well the conditions that I was talking about. Plows and salt do an excellent job of clearing snow off of a roadway. However, a clean roadway does not always mean a clean car.
     
  20. BerTX

    BerTX Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    Texas/Washington
    Sorry, I guess I read "the snowy weather really wreaks havoc with some of the autopilot features" and "snow on the road" and carried that over to the statement about cruise control.
     

Share This Page