P85D First long trip, range data, etc...

[wk057]

I think that Elon meant matching the EPA range; the P85D range at steady 65mph may still prove to be higher than P85.

Currently, I tried 15 miles or so of relatively flat road at 65 on cruise. No possible way it could ever get close to the P85(+) currently at that setting, let alone beat it. I was still in the upper 300s Wh/mi with climate off and everything. Dry road. Edit: I also tried this up north, but it was rainy and not necessarily flat, but came up with similar results.

I was wondering if you will be interested to test your P85D against my P85+ following each other along the same route. We can meet at the Delaware supercharger, charge to same level, set tires to the same pressure, etc. We then can drive south along the Rt.95 for approximately 33 miles to the next rest area (Maryland House Rest Area), and back to the Delaware supercharger, cruise control set to 65mph.

I won't be back up that way for a little while, but my fiance has a P85 with 21's (which is less efficient than my P85 with 19s for sure, but not by much, maybe 8% at worst). We're both heading on a highway run of ~50 miles each way not long from now and I'll make it a point to bring both cars. I'll even follow behind her to give the P85D a small drafting handicap. It is almost pointless though because I know the P85D will be less efficient as it stands.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I won't be back up that way for a little while, but my fiance has a P85 with 21's (which is less efficient than my P85 with 19s for sure, but not by much, maybe 8% at worst). We're both heading on a highway run of ~50 miles each way not long from now and I'll make it a point to bring both cars. I'll even follow behind her to give the P85D a small drafting handicap. It is almost pointless though because I know the P85D will be less efficient as it stands.

That would be an interesting run, especially if it is on hwy with cruise control set at 65mph. Just make sure that whatever is possible to set the same - is: auto lowering, climate control, range mode, tire pressure... Another big factor is state of the battery when you are leaving for a trip - this includes temperature and possibly SOC. It would be great if both cars had at least couple of hours of charging completed just before leaving - this will insure that both battery temperatures are close to steady state and similar for both cars.

I am currently running 19" winter set - so if/when you decide to take me up on my suggestion - just let me know...

 

[wk057]

That would be an interesting run, especially if it is on hwy with cruise control set at 65mph. Just make sure that whatever is possible to set the same - is: auto lowering, climate control, range mode, tire pressure... Another big factor is state of the battery when you are leaving for a trip - this includes temperature and possibly SOC. It would be great if both cars had at least couple of hours of charging completed just before leaving - this will insure that both battery temperatures are close to steady state and similar for both cars.

I am currently running 19" winter set - so if/when you decide to take me up on my suggestion - just let me know...

Yeah, should be pretty simple. I have the HPWC plus a NEMA 15-40 in the garage currently. Can just set them both to 90%, then a little while before the drive set both to 95% and 40A charge rate. Should get the temps the same and all. Garage isn't heated but it is insulated and it stays reasonably warm inside anyway.

Probably try it in the next few days. Go to the highway, set cruise, reset trip B.

 

[Cottonwood]

Yeah, should be pretty simple. I have the HPWC plus a NEMA 15-40 in the garage currently. Can just set them both to 90%, then a little while before the drive set both to 95% and 40A charge rate. Should get the temps the same and all. Garage isn't heated but it is insulated and it stays reasonably warm inside anyway.

Probably try it in the next few days. Go to the highway, set cruise, reset trip B.

Stevezzzz and I may give this test a try this weekend. I have a heated garage that I keep at about 48˚F. I also have a 14-50 for the UMC and an HPWC. My plan is the let both the P85 and the P85D spend the night in the 48˚F garage at 80% charge. An hour or so before the test, I plan to change both of the cars at 40 Amps charging to 90% and turn on the climate control to 73˚F. I know that the climate control turns off after 30 min, so I will be manually turning the climate control off and back on every 20 minutes. I think we will try to use a loop that is about 30-45 minutes of driving, do one lap with each of us driving one car, speed limit, "sport" acceleration, good hypermile technique, same inside temps, etc. Then we will record data, swap drivers, and do the same lap again. This should put both cars through the same road conditions at the same time, and for the last variable, the driver, we will do two runs, swapping drivers.

Would love to hear comments and suggestions on how to make this a better test.

 

[randompersonx]

Stevezzzz and I may give this test a try this weekend. I have a heated garage that I keep at about 48˚F. I also have a 14-50 for the UMC and an HPWC. My plan is the let both the P85 and the P85D spend the night in the 48˚F garage at 80% charge. An hour or so before the test, I plan to change both of the cars at 40 Amps charging to 90% and turn on the climate control to 73˚F. I know that the climate control turns off after 30 min, so I will be manually turning the climate control off and back on every 20 minutes. I think we will try to use a loop that is about 30-45 minutes of driving, do one lap with each of us driving one car, speed limit, "sport" acceleration, good hypermile technique, same inside temps, etc. Then we will record data, swap drivers, and do the same lap again. This should put both cars through the same road conditions at the same time, and for the last variable, the driver, we will do two runs, swapping drivers.

Would love to hear comments and suggestions on how to make this a better test.

In order to minimize variation due to wind load, it's best to allow large amounts of space in front of your car -- don't tailgate, drafting effect can throw the measurement off.

Also, cruise control at 65 I think is a very interesting thing since that's what the original promised range was based on.

 

[wk057]

In order to minimize variation due to wind load, it's best to allow large amounts of space in front of your car -- don't tailgate, drafting effect can throw the measurement off.

Also, cruise control at 65 I think is a very interesting thing since that's what the original promised range was based on.

Agree that cruising at 65 would be ideal. Air suspension settings the same, also, although I doubt it makes any real measurable difference.

 

[jerry33]

It will be best to do two runs. One car leads during the first run and the other car leads during the second run. I think you'll be surprised at the difference in the values between the two runs.

 

[andrewket]

I've driven about 200 miles so far. On the highway at 65 I've been able to achieve 345-350 wH/mile.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I've driven about 200 miles so far. On the highway at 65 I've been able to achieve 345-350 wH/mile.

That's consistent with what I'm seeing.

Same routes in same conditions on my P85 (not +) I saw 329Wh/mi.

 

[Cottonwood]

It will be best to do two runs. One car leads during the first run and the other car leads during the second run. I think you'll be surprised at the difference in the values between the two runs.

We were planning on a large distance between cars. There is much less draft off of a Model S compared to a Semi, and I bet staying a furlong or two in trail, the drafting effect will be very, very small.

 

[wk057]

I've driven about 200 miles so far. On the highway at 65 I've been able to achieve 345-350 wH/mile.

I've not been able to get close to that really. And even so, 350 Wh * 285 claimed miles at 65 MPH = almost 100 kWh....

To do 285 at 65 MPH we'd need to be at around 270 Wh/mi... which I just don't see happening.

 

[wk057]

Son of a... forgot I can't edit posts to add data (the first post in this case) after 24 hours due to forum policy changes..... grrrrrrrr

Here is the data I collected... I was going to interpolate some numbers based on the data to make a graph, but, not really feeling like it at the moment since this data is probably useless after whatever update is coming anyway...
If anyone feels like doing anything with the data, here is the CSV: P85D trip data.csv

Time	Seconds From Start	SLC Distance	SLC Energy	SLC Avg	Trip Distance	Trip Energy	Trip Avg	Past 5 miles	Past 15 miles	Past 30 miles	Rated Range	Estimated MPH	Actual Miles Diff	Rated Miles Change
6:54:41 AM	0.00	0	0	0	0	0	0				243
7:20:39 AM	1,558.00	10.4	3.9	374	10.4	3.9	374	339			233	24.03	10.40	-10
7:24:51 AM	1,810.00	12.3	4.4	360	12.3	4.4	360	303			231	27.14	1.90	-2
7:31:14 AM	2,193.00	19	7	368	19	7	368	340			223	62.98	6.70	-8
7:32:49 AM	2,288.00	20.7	7.6	366	20.7	7.6	366	337			221	64.42	1.70	-2
7:35:13 AM	2,432.00	22.7	8	353	22.7	8	353	293			219	50.00	2.00	-2
7:46:16 AM	3,095.00	32	11.8	369	32	11.8	369	360			207	50.50	9.30	-12
7:46:37 AM	3,116.00	32.4	11.9	369	32.4	11.9	369	367			207	68.57	0.40	0
8:01:13 AM	3,992.00	45.3	16.1	356	45.3	16.1	356			343	193	53.01	12.90	-14
8:43:28 AM	6,527.00	0	0	0	45.3	16.1	356				247	0.00	0.00	54
9:15:50 AM	8,469.00	36.1	13.5	374	81.4	29.6	364			351	204	66.92	36.10	-43
9:26:32 AM	9,111.00	48.5	17.7	365	93.8	33.8	361			325	190	69.53	12.40	-14
9:33:22 AM	9,521.00	56.2	20.2	360	101.5	36.4	358			313	182	67.61	7.70	-8
9:38:02 AM	9,801.00	60.6	21.1	348	105.9	37.2	352			301	179	56.57	4.40	-3
9:55:51 AM	10,870.00	81	28.7	355	126.3	44.9	355			334	154	68.70	20.40	-25
10:14:11 AM	11,970.00	101.3	35.2	348	146.6	51.3	350			320	133	66.44	20.30	-21
10:18:00 AM	12,199.00	105.6	36.8	348	150.9	52.9	351			319	128	67.60	4.30	-5
10:31:48 AM	13,027.00	121.3	42.1	347	166.6	58.2	349			343	111	68.26	15.70	-17
11:12:29 AM	15,468.00	144.5	49.5	343	189.8	65.6	346	295			87	34.22	23.20	-24
11:34:39 AM	16,798.00	157.7	54.5	345	203	70.6	348				71	35.73	13.20	-16
12:03:35 PM	18,534.00	193.7	67	346	239	83.1	348	317			30	74.65	36.00	-41
12:09:20 PM	18,879.00	201.1	70	348	246.4	86.1	349			347	20	77.22	7.40	-10
12:15:42 PM	19,261.00	207	71.6	346	252.3	87.7	348			333	15	55.60	5.90	-5
12:20:46 PM	19,565.00	208.5	72.2	346	253.8	88.3	348			339	13	17.76	1.50	-2
12:59:36 PM	21,895.00	0	0	0	253.8	88.3	348				158	0.00	0.00	145
1:27:59 PM	23,598.00	25.9	9.2	357	279.7	97.6	349			342	128	54.75	25.90	-30
1:58:28 PM	25,427.00	63.9	24.2	378	317.7	112.5	354			407	80	74.79	38.00	-48
2:18:26 PM	26,625.00	88.2	33.7	382	342	122	357			383	48	73.02	24.30	-32
2:45:00 PM	28,219.00	0	0	0	342	122	357			383	168	0.00	0.00	120
4:23:34 PM	34,133.00	110.2	43.6	396	452.2	165.6	366			387	24	67.08	110.20	-144
5:25:00 PM	37,819.00	0	0	0	452.2	165.6	366			387	218	0.00	0.00	194
7:19:19 PM	44,678.00	120.5	47.1	391	572.6	212.7	371			393	65	63.19	120.40	-153

 

[wk057]

If there is demand for it, I can probably dig out similar data for the same trip in the P85 from photos.

 

[andrewket]

Well, I did it. I managed to get down to 15-mile 311 wH/mile average, and projected range > rated in my P85D.

I-95 south between port st Lucie and Ft Lauderdale. 78F, range mode with AC set to 68f, cruise between 65-70, 2 adults, 2 kids, packed with luggage, 19" wheels with primacy tires.

I'm currently at the Dania Beach service center getting a small charge so I don't have to be so cautious on the return north in a week. They are absolutely slammed here. There must be 50 cars in the back, another 10 in front, and 12 inside?

 

[wk057]

@andrewket

Much better than my results, for sure. Congrats. But that's still at least 10% off of the 285 miles at 65 number originally quoted. And you have 19's, which weren't even an option when I originally placed the order (and had 275 @ 65 advertised).

 

[andrewket]

@andrewket

Much better than my results, for sure. Congrats. But that's still at least 10% off of the 285 miles at 65 number originally quoted. And you have 19's, which weren't even an option when I originally placed the order (and had 275 @ 65 advertised).

Oh no doubt we need normal mode. In my P85+ I would have been in the 270-280 range if not less the way I was driving.

 

[toto_48313]

I'm currently at the Dania Beach service center getting a small charge so I don't have to be so cautious on the return north in a week. They are absolutely slammed here. There must be 50 cars in the back, another 10 in front, and 12 inside?

May be put this in another thread like " tracking P85D delivery... I've been told that 34 P85D are expected to be in Montreal service center today or tomorrow... it will look the same soon.

 

[darthy001]

@andrewket was this acomplished via hypermiling or "regular" non-agressive driving?

 

[andrewket]

@andrewket was this acomplished via hypermiling or "regular" non-agressive driving?

Regular driving. I-95 in Florida under just about ideal conditions.

 

[darthy001]

Regular driving. I-95 in Florida under just about ideal conditions.

Ok thanks, then its getting interesting. As wk057 mentioned the 19"s are of course a factor, but at least its getting closer to the infamous 285@65 statements. Add a normal-mode and we might actually be within reach of these numbers for real in ideal conditions.

I'll be running Hakka R2 19"s in winter when range is most troublesome and they have a very low rolling resistance. So hopefully this means that around 200miles is still doable in wintertime here.

Heres hoping that the normal-mode is ready by the time norwegian deliveries start late february:biggrin: