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P85D Hypothetical
- Thread starter Tslacg
- Start date
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
AndreyATC
Member
So, we know that
I dont see 200lb difference killing the range by a lot
- front motors are the same on all
- in range mode MS is propelled by front motor only
- there is roughly 200lb weight diff between P and non-P
- 19'' wheels are the same
I dont see 200lb difference killing the range by a lot
The larger motor may not be as energy efficient as the small motor.
The weight difference is pretty minor. The 85D/90D already weighs over 4800 lbs, adding 200 lbs alone is a tiny percentage increase.
The weight difference is pretty minor. The 85D/90D already weighs over 4800 lbs, adding 200 lbs alone is a tiny percentage increase.
I believe the CAN logging showed that torque sleep sometimes shuts off the front too.
AndreyATC
Member
This is actually one of my biggest questions about the car
To date, I don't have a clear understanding on how two motors work together
My conclusion was that all awd models switch to front, more efficient motor under light load
To date, I don't have a clear understanding on how two motors work together
My conclusion was that all awd models switch to front, more efficient motor under light load
jerjozwik
Active Member
whats with everyone freaking out when we say it uses less energy, dont believe us? its... not that hard to enable yourself. i have been doing daily energy logging since the day i got my P90D. and you know what days had the best overall efficiency on the exact same drive in the same weather in the same traffic with the same car setup? performance demo mode days.
but hey... what do i know.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
Look fella's, When I did my testing of the Performance easter egg with my P90D I found a 6.1 mile course that starts at my local park roundabout. This course has about 50% divided highway mileage at 60 MPH and the rest is country back roads at 35 MPH. This route was chosen, as after noontime, there virtually is no traffic on this route which can impart an undesirable variable to the testing - in the form of traffic. There are up and down gentle hills with regen opportunities. Range Mode On. Ludicrous Mode OFF, Suspension Normal.
I ran the route with the 70, 70D, 90D and P90D three times each mode all on the same day. TACC was used in all cases and speed increased/decreased with TACC stalk when posted speed changed usually by the 5 MPH increment. No HVAC or sound system usage.
After 4 runs I would drive home (1/10th mile) recharge on the HPWC until 82% was achieved and then go back to the roundabout to begin the next set. The sets were run 70, 70D, 90D and P90D. Then P90D, 90D, 70D and 70. Then 90D, 70, P90D, 70D.
The Wh/m were averaged as follows... and taken from my Trip A odometer. The firmware was 2.16.17 and I am now on 2.17.37
70 = 268
70D = 281
90D = 311
P90D = 366
Now perhaps a much longer route would show more or less variance... I really do not know nor do I desire to do that as then variables like traffic and stop and go would creep in. In my chosen route there is only one stop and that is when I come back to the traffic circle roundabout in the park.
I do not have logging data from these runs as I really do not want to get that involved or technoidy.
However, from my perspective the P90D and probably the P85D are the best Model S to do the "Performance" test with as a test mule as the P cars can "downgrade" their power draws to simulate less powerful S, where as if you tested in a 70D, well I am not sure it can simulate a P90D? It probably could simulate a 70 very well however.
BTW, when the P90D is in 70 (rear motor mode) simulation you are very very aware there is no front motor involved and the sensation is very anemic on acceleration and regen, and the front end of the car feels very light. Way more than in any other modes. However once at speed, say 60 MPH, then you really cannot tell at all.
I strongly urge Tesla Motors to incorporate the Range cookie into a permanent product feature as a mode of operation. I feel it could be very useful on long highway trips where you desire to extend range at the expense of performance.
I ran the route with the 70, 70D, 90D and P90D three times each mode all on the same day. TACC was used in all cases and speed increased/decreased with TACC stalk when posted speed changed usually by the 5 MPH increment. No HVAC or sound system usage.
After 4 runs I would drive home (1/10th mile) recharge on the HPWC until 82% was achieved and then go back to the roundabout to begin the next set. The sets were run 70, 70D, 90D and P90D. Then P90D, 90D, 70D and 70. Then 90D, 70, P90D, 70D.
The Wh/m were averaged as follows... and taken from my Trip A odometer. The firmware was 2.16.17 and I am now on 2.17.37
70 = 268
70D = 281
90D = 311
P90D = 366
Now perhaps a much longer route would show more or less variance... I really do not know nor do I desire to do that as then variables like traffic and stop and go would creep in. In my chosen route there is only one stop and that is when I come back to the traffic circle roundabout in the park.
I do not have logging data from these runs as I really do not want to get that involved or technoidy.
However, from my perspective the P90D and probably the P85D are the best Model S to do the "Performance" test with as a test mule as the P cars can "downgrade" their power draws to simulate less powerful S, where as if you tested in a 70D, well I am not sure it can simulate a P90D? It probably could simulate a 70 very well however.
BTW, when the P90D is in 70 (rear motor mode) simulation you are very very aware there is no front motor involved and the sensation is very anemic on acceleration and regen, and the front end of the car feels very light. Way more than in any other modes. However once at speed, say 60 MPH, then you really cannot tell at all.
I strongly urge Tesla Motors to incorporate the Range cookie into a permanent product feature as a mode of operation. I feel it could be very useful on long highway trips where you desire to extend range at the expense of performance.
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deonb
Active Member
ArtInCT
Always Learning
Ok looking at my log book...
70 = 270 272 263
70D = 281 277 283
90D = 312 306 315
P90D = 371 358 369
I cannot account for the variances by run, for example why the 263 for the 70 or why the 371 for the P90D.
Perhaps battery management system? Heating or cooling the battery / motors? Also the time between each run in a set was about 2 minutes to jot the number down, reset the trip and take a swig of water.
Also, my P90D average lifetime number is 336 for aprox 1,700 miles so this route and test does not exemplify my
typical real life experience and is pessimistic. The temps during the test were between 55 and 58 F with fairly calm winds and dry road surface and full sun. My tires are Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position S-04's on 19" T-Sportline cyclone style rims at 46 PSI.
The test took about 3 hours to run, 2 of those hours spent recharging back up to 82%. 40A at 230V is typical for me with one on board charger. I chose 82% as at that state of charge my regen is not limited. It is pretty tedious to run this test. I could NOT see myself doing this for longer trips.
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AndreyATC
Member
I believe you
I have 5 mile commute and I can easily sense the difference when I switch from winter to summer tires
It does not require longer run to be able to determine higher or lower usage
I can also tell the difference between 45F and 55
I'm honestly quite surprised that my P85d is less efficient than my old P85+
I have 5 mile commute and I can easily sense the difference when I switch from winter to summer tires
It does not require longer run to be able to determine higher or lower usage
I can also tell the difference between 45F and 55
I'm honestly quite surprised that my P85d is less efficient than my old P85+
Great data. Rather than setting your car to emulate another model which may be confusing to some drivers, I think this shows Tesla could vastly improve range by adding some performance/economy settings. The max economy setting could for all intents and purposes be the 70 emulation, but it could be incorporated into one control the driver can set to balance economy and performance.
Yeah I think we need three options - Sport, Ludicrous, and Range, where Range gives you the 70 emulation mode
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
It would also be important to measure how much you actually have to recharge. Playing devils advocate again -- what if setting the demo modes screws up the energy reporting for some reason? So maybe the car is giving incorrect data. This could be checked by seeing how much you have to recharge for each run.
On the non-devils advocate side, I could see maybe the front engine being configured in such a way where it is more efficient than the rear motor, and maybe the demo modes are cutting off power to the rear motor making the driving more efficient overall. Maybe. Whatever the case, you can never have too much data.
On the non-devils advocate side, I could see maybe the front engine being configured in such a way where it is more efficient than the rear motor, and maybe the demo modes are cutting off power to the rear motor making the driving more efficient overall. Maybe. Whatever the case, you can never have too much data.
deonb
Active Member
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
What’s the difference between a motor and an engine? | MIT School of Engineering
They mean the same, typical use is cultural.
They mean the same, typical use is cultural.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
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