P85D Ludicrous Pre-Order Upgrade Available 9/25/15

[lolachampcar]

that would be inviting a world of hurt when it comes to people wanting the correct suspension for the car (you insert what is correct).

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Despite experiencing what the PDL is capable of, after mulling over this a bit, I've decided to forego the upgrade. :|

It'd net out to nearly $8k (assuming sales tax on the parts), money that'll make a big dent in the Model 3 outlay in a couple of years.

Am not one of those concerned about resale; I'm (hopefully) going to hang on to this car for eons.

Nine months in, the L-less P85D has been an absolute privilege and pleasure to drive. Am contented with that.

All the best to you upgraders!

 

[lolachampcar]

gg,
If resale is any concern, I think you are on the right track. I do not think L will fetch anywhere near the initial cost when you go to sell and likely not anywhere near the normal depreciated value either. It think you gotta really want to use it on a daily basis for it to make any sense.

 

[George Parrott]

What is "worth" or "value?" Is there actual "value" in a gourmet meal costing $150/person over the same calories at Denny's for $15? Is an Armani suit really worth the cost over something from J.C. Penny's?

Only IF it IS TO YOU. These are all subjective cost-benefits considerations. Sure in a car, on resale a few of the bells and whistles return a bit of their original cost, but rarely even close to what the original upgrades cost at delivery.

A car purchase is a microcosm of life itself, it is not about the end but the journey that matters, so IF one thinks that "Ludicrous" is worth "X dollars" than simply it IS for that person. IF, on the other hand, for another P85D driver, they have "thrills enough" in their current configuration that "X dollars" spent on adding some extra moments of experience could be better spent elsewhere, then so be it.

For me....of course it is totally stupid to spend this kind of money on such a small rational delta of performance improvement......but hell, I' in, of course !

 

[sorka]

Yea because a factory performance upgrade that retains it's full warranty and adds 56 horsepower is a small delta. This makes it one of the least costly upgrades on a dollar per hp basis in the industry.

 

[steilkurve]

Question, will there be a range hit? You loose some miles from 85D to P85D. What about from P85D to P85DL? Any range loss there? I get that keeping it in Ludicrous mode will draw more but say you just leave it in sport?

 

[Andyw2100]

Question, will there be a range hit? You loose some miles from 85D to P85D. What about from P85D to P85DL? Any range loss there? I get that keeping it in Ludicrous mode will draw more but say you just leave it in sport?

There's actually no efficiency loss between Sport and Insane modes. No reason to believe there would be an efficiency loss going to Ludicrous.

 

[Super_Popular]

There's actually no efficiency loss between Sport and Insane modes. No reason to believe there would be an efficiency loss going to Ludicrous.

There has to be, you are using more energy.....going faster, longer.

 

[steilkurve]

There's actually no efficiency loss between Sport and Insane modes. No reason to believe there would be an efficiency loss going to Ludicrous.

Ok but then what reduces range in the P version? The more powerful back powertrain? And sorry for the novice question.

 

[jbcarioca]

There has to be, you are using more energy.....going faster, longer.

True, if you use the extra performance. I think Andyw2100 was making the point that merely selecting Insane mode incurs no efficiency loss unless one uses the extra power.

 

[robin_]

The price isn't the half of it.

This says that anyone who ordered prior to the announcement is eligible.

I don't know about the US, but in the UK anyone who had a P85D reservation in the build queue but who hadn't commenced production was called up by Tesla Inside Sales who told them that they were not eligible for the retrofit, and that the only way to get ludicrous in their car would be to reconfigure it to be a P90DL by paying full price for ludicrous, taking a pack upgrade they might not have wanted, re-pricing the rest of their order to current design studio pricing, and potentially losing access to certain discontinued options as well.

So if you're a UK reservation holder who placed your P85D order in February 2015, but whose car was still not in production by July (which it wouldn't have been due to long RHD production delays), and you chose to reconfigure since you were told that was the only way, then you've had to pay £8300 for ludicrous, £2500 for the bigger pack, reconfiguring to new pricing probably added another £2000 or so given UK price movement earlier in the year, you lost your second charger, your next-gen or executive rear seats, and had to switch from "old blue" to "new blue".

But now it turns out you could have just kept the car you actually ordered and had the fuse retrofit after all.

Is that excrement I see flying towards the air blower?

I picked up my UK RHD P85D on 24th July. At the time, I was reassured that the upgrade would be available and my name is on the list. This has been confirmed in writing since.

 

[Andyw2100]

There has to be, you are using more energy.....going faster, longer.

You misunderstood.

Obviously if you were driving both cars constantly at their maximum acceleration, insane mode is going to use more energy than sport mode, and ludicrous mode is going to use more energy than insane mode. That's not the issue, or the question.

The question of efficiency comes in when driving the cars in an equivalent way. When you drive the P85D in insane mode and never utilize the insane capabilities of insane mode, it is no less efficient than if you were in sport mode. I'm suggesting the same should be true of Ludicrous mode.

Obviously if you are doing 0-60 launches you will be most efficient doing them in sport mode, and least efficient in Ludicrous mode, but that's not what the issue was.

Ok but then what reduces range in the P version? The more powerful back powertrain? And sorry for the novice question.

I believe it is largely the weight of the car, and that most of the additional weight is due to the larger back engine. Someone more technically savvy may want to address this, though.

- - - Updated - - -

True, if you use the extra performance. I think Andyw2100 was making the point that merely selecting Insane mode incurs no efficient loss unless one uses the extra power.

Yes. Thank you. You beat me to it by two minutes, because I was being wordier!

 

[jbcarioca]

Yes. Thank you. You beat me to it by two minutes, because I was being wordier!

Possibly the first time I ever have been credited with being less verbose than any other human being. Thank you!

 

[andrewket]

There has to be, you are using more energy.....going faster, longer.

Yep, there will be a hit IF YOU USE IT. If you're gentle on the accelerator and use normal rates of acceleration, there should be no impact.

 

[tstafford]

Yea because a factory performance upgrade that retains it's full warranty and adds 56 horsepower is a small delta. This makes it one of the least costly upgrades on a dollar per hp basis in the industry.

I'm not sure I understand this? Not challenging you, just wanting to make sure I get understand. Do we know that the upgrade is a 56 HP gain? And do we know what the torque gain is?

Honestly a 56 HP gain for $7500 is quite pricey IMHO. My last car was a 535i that I added a Dinan Stage One ECU upgrade to (done by the BMW dealer with full warranty protection) for $2500 installed. That added about the same HP as you are indicating and nearly 90 lb/ft torque. FWIW - It was a highly noticeable and usable upgrade. Right in the power band and enjoyable for sure.

I guess I was expecting more out of the ludicrous upgrade. That said, none of this matters until we see what it does in the ranges that are how we normally drive. If this creates a noticeable boost in passing power (the one area that bugs me with the P85D) then I'm all good.

Either way - deposit is down and I'm charging forward.

 

[sillydriver]

I put down my deposit. One of the great things about this forum is that important news is quickly flagged: I doubt whether I would have discovered the upgrade buried in their accessories store otherwise.


I don’t think the upgrade is overpriced. I believe it raises current from 1300 amps to 1500 amps. Power is voltage times current. I suspect the voltage is a little less in ludicrous mode due lower output voltage resulting from a greater voltage drop from resistance (impedance) in the battery itself. So the power gain would be slightly less than the 15.4% increase in current. FWIW, I think the performance to the quarter mile may be slightly lower for the P85D add-on than for the P90D because the P85D battery impedance is slightly higher.


Nevertheless, the gain should be noticeable. The biggest car buying mistake I ever made was buying an Audi R8 in the first year of production, where only the 425hp V8 was offered. If I had waited a year I could have gotten the 525hp V10, with 23% more power. The V10 weighs more, so the acceleration difference is less. As I recall, the price difference would have been $160k v. about $120k otherwise identically equipped. The ludicrous power increase is smaller, but the percentage price difference is much smaller. I consider this a good comparison because as with the two engines, the ludicrous add-on is stock ‘original equipment’, which is a safer investment than third-party aftermarket.

 

[sorka]

I'm not sure I understand this? Not challenging you, just wanting to make sure I get understand. Do we know that the upgrade is a 56 HP gain? And do we know what the torque gain is?

Honestly a 56 HP gain for $7500 is quite pricey IMHO. My last car was a 535i that I added a Dinan Stage One ECU upgrade to (done by the BMW dealer with full warranty protection) for $2500 installed. That added about the same HP as you are indicating and nearly 90 lb/ft torque. FWIW - It was a highly noticeable and usable upgrade. Right in the power band and enjoyable for sure.

I guess I was expecting more out of the ludicrous upgrade. That said, none of this matters until we see what it does in the ranges that are how we normally drive. If this creates a noticeable boost in passing power (the one area that bugs me with the P85D) then I'm all good.

Either way - deposit is down and I'm charging forward.

I should clarify that that we know the p90dl maxes out at 456kw vs the p85d's 414kw which is 56 hp difference at the battery. The p85d may not actually make as much so it's a bit of a gamble. A recent update to Tesla's site yesterday has the p85d and p90dl 0 to 60 at 2.8 seconds with the L upgrade but the 1/4 mile times require L and the bigger battery for 10.9 seconds so there's an indication that the p85d may not make quite as much power but it will be very close.

 

[lolachampcar]

You know, I'd venture to say it is not as simple as KW at the battery increases. There may be a bit of an area under the curve thing going on here.

I got the distinct impression from my PD that Tesla is pulling power to limit the surge delivery time. The PDL seemed to be allowed to use the battery much more in addition to having a bit more battery draw available for use. The difference in overall performance of the planform was significant for me and more than worth the upgrade charge. Everyone sits on a different wallet and may not think so highly of the change but it works for me.

 

[sillydriver]

I got the distinct impression from my PD that Tesla is pulling power to limit the surge delivery time. The PDL seemed to be allowed to use the battery much more in addition to having a bit more battery draw available for use.

That is very interesting. Could really add performance.

 

[lolachampcar]

That is why this whole motor power, battery draw, etc. discussion drives me nuts. My butt tells me there is a lot more going on which makes sense given Tesla is obviously controlling battery draw with software. I have no inside info but I would guess they tried Ludicrous on the PD only to find that the contractors took a dump when they pulled 1500 amps for longer than they were pulling 1300 amps in Insane. They probably lost a fuse or two but the contactor was likely the weakest link. What they thought would be an over the air (for free) software upgrade became the $7500 Ludicrous.

I'm ok with it because the PD Tesla delivered met my expectations for performance (as set by the announcement event and my knowledge of MS battery usage).
I also understand how the original hardware could not have supported more which explains the hardware change and associated costs.