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P85D no longer fitted with staggered tyres - does this affect traction/performance?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by thegruf, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    now seems to be supplied square with 245's all round (whether 19s or 21s).
    So is the acceleration traction limited as a consequence compared to the previous 265 rears fitted?

    Cant see 245s holding that peak torque tbh
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    As far as I'm aware, the difference felt with the staggered tires was in handling, not acceleration traction.
     
  3. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    And thankfully the P85D is also available with 19" wheels which gives you the same performance, 99% of the same handling at significantly lower cost :)
     
  4. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    You will only get equivalent handling to the 21 inch Michelin PS2's if you replace the Continentals or Michelin Primacy's with a 19" performance tire like the Pilot Super Sport.
     
  5. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

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    So I've driven the P85D with both stock Michelin on 19" (mine) and with the 21" performance tires (loaner). At least at my skill level I can feel zero handling advantage - actually I MUCH prefer the way the 19" wheels drive because you can feel every single crack in the road with the 21s.
    So while I'm sure there are some professional drivers out there who will claim to be able to tell the difference on a track - I have serious doubts that there is a noticeable difference in normal driving.
     
  6. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    Most likely the loaner you drove had the 245/35/21 ContiSilent tires, which is apparently the new configuration shipping from the factory. In that case I wouldn't expect you to notice much of a handling difference to the 19" Primacy's. However the initial P85D's were delivered with staggered Michelin PS2's. These are the same tires that were on the P85+. Having driven my P85D with both the Continentals and PS2's there is a noticeable difference in cornering performance when driving aggressively (much more than 1%). Owners who don't find that important can optimize for cost/road noise/treadwear/etc., while those of us who do will likely optimize for handling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The improvement in handling was mostly due to the softer rubber compound (and thus worse treadwear rating) of the Michelin PS2 vs. the Continentals, not the extra 20mm of rear rubber.
     
  7. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Agreed. Tires are the biggest difference you can make. Almost everything else is going for that last 1/10 (or 1/100th) of a second reduction in lap time, which is just not noticeable on real roads.
     
  8. Dennis87

    Dennis87 Member

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    #8 Dennis87, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
    Was the non staggered 21" P85D wheels silver or gray? It looks like Tesla had some problems with the supply for staggered silver rims. Another possibility is that the 265 tire is not easy to get from Michelin at the time.
     
  9. Blu Zap

    Blu Zap Grinning member

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    Interesting. I did not know Tesla had squared off the tire size on the P85D. On my P85+ I need every mm of those 265s in the rear. The dynamics of the two wheel drive configuration work great with the staggered PS2s. I wouldn't want it any other way.
     
  10. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    The staggered 21s come in both silver and gray. I believe Tesla is just simplifying their manufacturing process since they no longer need the extra 20 mm of the rear rubber to protect against oversteer (FMVSS 126 testing) given the AWD configuration of the P85D. unfortunately that means Tesla is no longer providing an OEM ultra performance tire like they did on the P85+.
     
  11. Firewired

    Firewired Member

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    My P85D was a December delivery and came with staggered. I had heard that there was a recently that there was a supply issue and people would be issued the ordered staggered 21" when they came available. Can anyone confirm that they have heard otherwise from Tesla?
     
  12. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Active Member

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    I believe you hit the nail on the head with this. I believe Michelin is the only currently available supplier for the 21" tires in the 265 size. Any hiccup in that supply chain would result in the suspension of the staggered wheel setup...
     
  13. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    My March delivery P85D came with the square Continental setup. When I questioned this I was told that it was a correct configuration, and that the ordering website no longer specifies tire size or brand, just wheel diameter.
     
  14. Sigma4Life

    Sigma4Life Member

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    My P85D was built during the first week of March and it arrived with the staggered setup. I have the dark grey wheels.
     
  15. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    so it seems Tesla are mixing staggered and square setups, possilby due to tire availability.
    I assume the wheel widths are the same - can anyone confirm this?

    Still raises the prospect if you only have 245s on the rear with 600-1000NM of torque from the 470hp motor (depending which figures you take) that wheelspin/traction control must cut in earlier than on 265s a limit acceleration performance.
     
  16. Dennis87

    Dennis87 Member

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    I did see someone mention that the conti 245 tires also is narrower than the 245 PS2 in the other staggered wheels thread on this forum.
    Wider wheels can give better traction on acceleration, but the biggest difference is when cornering and the type of rubber compound on the tire.

    Some info on this:
    Tyres - Why is wide good? - PistonHeads


    But the reason I did choose the 21" for the P85D was because the looks, and also looks much better from the rear with the wider tires and rims.
     
  17. krisg81

    krisg81 Member

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    Having driven many 245 square setups and running staggered on my P85 and of course P85D now, I would NEVER *not* run staggered on a Tesla. It's a wide body car and needs that additional rim/tire width to optimize handling. 245 tires are way too skinny to run on such a bulky and wide car! My P85 had 255 front and 295 rear and it was perfect. When I went back to 245s (had to go back to stock to trade in for P85D) I realized how miserable the car handled on skinny wheels and tires.
     
  18. Senox

    Senox Member

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    Does anyone have experience of 20" with 245 front and 255 rear? Maybe a good trade off?
     
  19. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    Okay, some mixed comments above, some I can agree with, others not.

    Wider tires will offer more grip.
    Wider tires will reduce economy.

    The car is heavy, so wider tires should be expected and required to improve cornering ability/limits.

    The particular issue I raised though is acceleration.

    These cars generate huge torque at low speed and it is this that will most likely break traction.
    I dont see 245s handling this (nor 265s for that matter), which means acceleration is going to be traction/electronically limited which blunts one of the big selling points of the car.

    Not being an owner (yet) - does the instrument cluster flash a traction control/stability warning light when the wheels slip under hard acceleration?
    Does this happen on dry roads in good condition?
    And is there any evidence that 245s slip more easily than 265s on launch acceleration?
     
  20. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    I never broke traction (traction/stability warning light flash) doing insane mode launches with the 245 square setup. Yes the car is electronically limited - to 3.2 sec 0-60 times with no wheel spin. No blunting going on there.

    Maybe someone can take a trip to Fremont on Monday or Tuesday. There should be a lot of P85Ds being delivered for EOQ, and a count of how many have 245 vs. 265 rear tires would be interesting.
     

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