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P85D Nurburgring Edition

Discussion in 'Future Cars' started by Ludus, Nov 4, 2014.

  1. Ludus

    Ludus Member

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    The P85D is already in supercar territory in acceleration and handling. It's got limitations on maximum speed and especially sustained high speed that likely limit it's performance on the Nurburgring. Are there realistic modifications that could make a P85D Nurburgring Edition possible?

    Dual motors have already proven more energy efficient at moderate speeds and capable of higher maximum speed as well as better acceleration. Can the advantage be pushed further? Improved battery cooling? Gearing?
    Even bigger front electric motor?

    Has a fully autonomous car ever tackled Nurburgring? Not that the S is near that, it just seems kinda like the Autonomous Car version of Watson on Jeopardy.
     
  2. Vger

    Vger Active Member

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    Now THAT is an interesting thing to contemplate! Especially if Tesla can do it before Audi, Porsche and Mercedes (the one-reigning F1 champion).
     
  3. Alipapa

    Alipapa Member

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    Not sure about the handling part.
     
  4. Ludus

    Ludus Member

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    I was mostly thinking about center of gravity and weight distribution but I really don't know how to compare or evaluate it otherwise. What does an S P85D need to improve in handling?
     
  5. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    But Vger - Audi already has the lead in this, apparently. In mid-October, their autonomous RS-7 ran the Hockenheimring in just over two minutes: Audi RS 7 proves it needs no driver to go racing
    Now, that's not the Nurburgring, but it's awfully impressive! To me, anyway.
     
  6. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    Impressive - YES. But I would like to see what the car does with other vehicles on the track moving around. That is a whole different ball game IMO.
     
  7. Zextraterrestrial

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    much less weight
    maybe 345 rear & 305 front tires?
     
  8. callmesam

    callmesam Member

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    Can you please provide a citation for "It's got limitations on maximum speed and especially high speed that likely limit it's performance on the Nurburgring."
     
  9. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    We know the P85Ds delivered are limited to 155 mph.
     
  10. googlepeakoil

    googlepeakoil Member

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    There's a youtube video where a P85 goes to reduced power just as it completes one lap. Of course 1 lap is about 6-8minutes so it seems to manage full power for only this amount of time.
    From the video I understand it was due to overheating. I presume the hydraulic fluid that cools the motor / electronics is not capable of cooling the car sufficiently (pipe too small / radiator too small) at continuous fast acceleraton / top speed. I wouldn't expect the battery over-heating is a problem as it's plenty big enough to not have the heat build up in that time.
     
  11. wallet.dat

    wallet.dat Member

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    On a road course it's all about how much speed you can preserve through the turns. A 5000lb car is going to have a lot of things going against it, and that's not even considering the possibility of getting throttled by a limp-home mode. I really hope we never see a P85D vs. Honda Civic Type-R on the Nurbergring video posted because that would be humbling.
     
  12. Realist

    Realist Member

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    I know the Nürburgring and most of these manufacturer claims are worthless. These cars have special settings, tires and the drivers are professional racers. Honda says the Civic Type R will do 7:50. In reality that is not possible. If you go under 8 minutes in any car for a full lap including the long straight you are really really quick. In a car close to 300hp and 1400kg? No way.

    If the P85D can do 1 Lap with full power it might be faster than you think. In theory. On many parts of this circuit traction is important. Braking is an issue with weight over 2tons. The Tesla’s biggest problem is the inability to test the car and adjust your driving style. After 2 laps it will need a recharge, that will take hours because there is not supercharger. So it takes days to really get to know the car and so on……..Not an easy shot.
     
  13. stephenpace

    stephenpace VIN S00219

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    Not that you could do easily aftermarket, but sure, Tesla could convert the entire frunk area for additional cooling purposes, bigger radiator, and perhaps use the AC system to provide additional cooling. My guess is this is a low priority for them, but after Model 3, perhaps JB could do a side project just to shut-up the haters. As for recharge, Tesla could just bring some of the portable SuperChargers out there like they did for Refuel. Then the argument switches from "the car can't do Nürburgring" to "well, you needed a special edition to beat my ICE".
     
  14. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Elon said at a public meeting they are not interested in any race activity. He explained that those are a way to create a demand (a form of advertising) which Tesla doesn't need more of. They have more demand than they can produce.

    Racing is all about being extremely wasteful with energy for the sake of going really fast on a race track that has very little to do with every day driving. I'm glad Tesla isn't wasting resources on that. There is no advantage for normal people whatsoever. Yes, you can buy a Nissan GT-R and brag it's the fastest car you can buy on the track, but let's be honest, no matter who you are, you won't be able to ever drive the car in a way where it would make a difference and your skills are no where near the limits of the car. All efforts put into making a car race-capable are wasted and 100% theoretical. Having the fastest car on the track is worth nothing in normal driving life.

    On the other side, what Tesla is doing, makes a positive impact on every driver in every day use. Auto pilot, energy efficient, easy use, comfort, lots of trunk space, safety.
     
  15. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    @David99, nice post, and I agree completely.

    Elon made the statement you refer to at the 2014 shareholders meeting. I was there and was pleased with the directness and clarity of his statement.
     
  16. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    I'd just like to see how a stock one does with a professional driver. I think it would do pretty well if it does not go to limp mode.
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    To my knowledge, this remains the Achilles' heal for the Model S w/r/t track experience. I haven't been keeping up with the forums (life's been busy) so maybe some of the [P]85D owners have some positive news to report on that front that I've missed.
     
  18. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Why don't they just add some liquid nitrogen tanks to in the frunk and trunk to dispense the inert cooling liquid over the motors as you drive?
     
  19. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    Yes, that would be my idea. Or just at least sub-cool the battery and motor using the on-board cooling system before running the lap. If we were able to play with the software on-board I am sure it could be done. That said I completely agree with Tesla motors perspective that this is not important to them. On the other hand, third parties should be free to do whatever they want, with or without the manufacturer's blessing.
     
  20. Ludus

    Ludus Member

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    ... And insane mode :) If it was just a Leaf without range anxiety it wouldn't fulfill it's mission of being compelling by being the best car you can buy. P85D going 0-60 in 3 seconds changes the entire image of what electric cars are. I agree Tesla doesn't need to do anything to promote sales right now so it doesn't need to do this right now.
     

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