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P85D performance firmware update - where is it?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by thegruf, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    as trailled in Elon's January tweet, paraphrased "... take the P85D to a level of performance not seen outside Tesla ..."

    I think I am not the only one confused by the recent update to the S85D that brings it's performance much closer to the P85D, yet the P85D update was not released at the same time.
    I reckon that >30mph there is very little to choose between them right now.

    I have a vested interest here (and so do Tesla with £17000 at stake) with an S85D currently on order, and only a limited time before the order gets confirmed.

    So come on Tesla please get the update out, relieve me of some more money, and convince me to upgrade.
     
  2. Dennis87

    Dennis87 Member

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    It does look like the 85D may be faster than the P85D when going at high speed. When going over 235 km/h with the P85D the numbers goes red. This does not happen on the 85D.

    And when I look on the specs for the engines it looks like the reason is that the rear engine on the P85D is just dead weight at high speed, but the 85D can use both engines. The gearing is still the same 9.71:1.

    Look at the attached specs (german) the P85D rear engine is only capable of 16 000 rpm but both of the 85D engines can do 18 000 rpm.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I believe it was released. Since 6.2 there have been tests of the P85D showing 0-60 under 3.1. This is discussed in some other threads. And this is all that Tesla had promised. There are rumours of 2.8, but no more than that.

    I've never been in an 85D, but if I understand, it's very similar to the old P85 in performance. There is certainly a noticeable difference off the line acceleration between the P85 and P85D.

    I'm not sure what somebody would want beyond what the P85D already does. It's just about bragging rights and the P85D certainly provides that. Even faster would always be nicer I suppose, but.... to what end?
     
  4. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Theres' no evidence that the recent .153 has provided any performance benefit to the PD other than lifting the top speed governor. The 0-60 video that was posted showing 3.05 is just in the noise from the previous 3.1.
     
  5. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    Well the 0-60 acceleration is close to being traction limited so only a small improvement possible there, but currently it seems the P85D tops out only a little over 400KW, with the motors rated at 515KW there is potential for considerable improvement if all the other components can handle it, benefitting the 40mph+ range in particular.
    I agree the performance update (top speed aside) is not part of current releases, but something must come otherwise the P85D will struggle to justify its price differential.
     
  6. qwertzy

    qwertzy Member

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    "Additionally, an over-the-air firmware upgrade to the power electronics will improve P85D performance at high speed above what anyone outside Tesla has experienced to date."

    Its about highspeed past 0-60 I bet.
     
  7. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

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    Multiple people have reported a ~ .1 second improvement.
     
  8. Tourman

    Tourman Member

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    Yes from 3.2 to 3.1. Tesla has not said anything else, and all the "new" evidence is all within the margin of error of a .1 difference. I'll believe it when Tesla posts updated specs of a further improvement to the P85D.
     
  9. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    The only evidence I've seen could have easily been attributed to the margin of error and placebo.
     
  10. Kristoffer Helle

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    The 0-60 is better now
     
  11. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    There were 3 P85D performance improvements separately promised:

    1) 0-60 in 3.1 vs. 3.2
    2) Top speed of 155 vs. 130
    3) High speed performance not yet experienced by anyone outside of Tesla

    Are we in agreement that 1) and 2) have been delivered (and are currently called out on the TM site) but Tesla has not yet delivered 3) ?
     
  12. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

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    It is possible that #3 was simply a marketing version of #2.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm not sure what you want. There are people with Racelogic VBOX results of .1 second improvement. If that is the amount of the improvement and you consider that within the margin of error, I'm having trouble imagining what you would consider proof.

    Its pretty hard to have a placebo effect with Vbox data.
     
  13. qwertzy

    qwertzy Member

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    The "additionally" part hints at a separate software update.
     
  14. krisg81

    krisg81 Member

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    i still do not get how people assume there was a .1 second improvement.

    I believe it was Motortrend who tested the P85D to get a 3.1 second 0-60, with older firmware. Also, the guy claiming he got a 3.05 0-60 in his video shows the VBOX getting 3.1seconds, so where does he get 3.05 at?? 3.1 has already happened with Motortrend. I can't believe we are even arguing over a sad .1 second improvement that is so minimal. I'm sure all P85D firmware was capable of 3.1 seconds if launched right in perfect conditions. Trust me, the car feels exactly the same with NO performance improvement whatsoever.
     
  15. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

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    I agree on this interpretation. At least 3 has not been delivered according to the wording that used to be in the US design studio. The "outside of Tesla"-comment was in addition to the mention of 155mph top speed. Totally meaningless words if they where related to the already mentioned top speed.

    @kris81 "that guy" is the same guy who has made or contributed to most of the videos comparing the "old" P85 with the P85D at different speeds and also has have made/released many of the most used drag videos of 0-60 testing. I believe he has written that the time of 3.05 was from the logs of the vbox and not necessarily the one exact run in the video. I dont think many other owners has as much previous data to compare with as fiksegts. So if he is confident in claiming a definitive 0,1 quicker I have no reason to doubt it. At least much more reliable then your butt-dyno:)
     
  16. krisg81

    krisg81 Member

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    Its a .5-.1 second difference - I bet he could have gotten that same result on a different temp on a different day with previous firmware. It's just too small of a difference to say a firmware update made that happen. Motor trend already reported a 3.1 second 0-60 prior to 6.2 firmware.. explain that?
     
  17. hotgrips

    hotgrips New Member

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    I've had my P85D for 3 weeks and don't really care about top speed. I care more about improving the acceleration. I have the 19" wheels because I live in NH where the roads are tortured with frost heaves and potholes. I was wondering about "gearing down" to accomplish better acceleration by changing to 19" tires with a lower sidewall height (lower numerical number) which would change the circumference to a smaller number, thus giving you better acceleration (and yes worse battery life). Have any of you tried that or gone thru the calculations? I do understand that will throw odometer and speedometer readings off, but you could compensate by limiting the car to not exceed the posted speed limit, or request a reprograming OTA to bring it back to an accurate display. You cannot make that kind of change with the 21" wheels because we might already be at the lowest sidewall height available.

    Smaller tire circumference would be like changing the sprockets on a motorcycle, a smaller output sprocket from the gearbox provides lower gearing, and thus better acceleration. The downside is top end speed is lower. How much theoretical improvement in 0-60 times are available with a smaller sidewall height on the 19" wheels?
     
  18. qwertzy

    qwertzy Member

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    #18 qwertzy, Apr 16, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
    The fastest time I've seen prior to the 6.2 update was 0-60 in 3.12 seconds.
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img537/5245/L7GICa.jpg

    So that's right on the mark with motortrend's testing.

    On the vbox page from dragtimes; they managed a time of 3.05 which is pretty much 3 seconds. Thats .95 milliseconds and little over difference.
    Tesla Model S P85D v6.2 Performance Data and Video | DragTimes.com Drag Racing, Fast Cars, Muscle Cars Blog
    Even resulting in a second faster 1/4 mile, at 11.5 secs which no P85D owner was able to break at 11.6 seconds prior to the 6.2 update.

    But yeah there's not much of a difference but at least you can say it gets to 60 faster than a Rs7 does in perfect conditions.
     
  19. krisg81

    krisg81 Member

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    If that update truly was the "performance" update we have all been waiting for, then it means one thing: Elon's hint at a 2.8second Model S means that a 100kW+ battery version is coming out, and the P85D will be eliminated/discontinued like the 60D was. Another blow to recent P85D owners and a great way to kill resale value like what happened to the 60D people.
     
  20. siucity

    siucity Button Pusher

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    There never was a 60D, at least not one anyone could have bought.
     

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