P85D (pre/post April) ride performance

[Niclas]

AMN, it must be something wrong with the suspension on your P85D. So, did they replace the dampers on your car, since you now have the standard suspension?
All I want is the same suspension as the P85+ on the PxxD.

 

[AMN]

AMN, it must be something wrong with the suspension on your P85D. So, did they replace the dampers on your car, since you now have the standard suspension?
All I want is the same suspension as the P85+ on the PxxD.

A friend of mine got his P85D on the same day at the same SC in Minneapolis. The suspension behavior is identical on both cars. The VINs are within 20 cars of each other but his car came with heated steering wheel as part of the cold weather package, mine isn't heated... funny. I must have missed it by 5 minutes.

The new supposedly "soft" suspension that they put in recently, isn't softer than our P85+ VIN 13,xxx that we traded in. Both on 21" wheels.

 

[lolachampcar]

Only a damper dyno is going to straighten this one out....

 

[3mp_kwh]

We really need more numbers, since Sorka, Lola and my own are all different, so far. We also dont have #'s from a single P85D, post March build.

Not much room for (sway) coclusions, yet.

W/o tesla's engineered shock/spring values, it would be compelling if you road tested 28mm sways, and got 24's, in my opinion. That kind of takes customer tastes for granted. So, your empowerment may only be calipers away.

Pax, I am in and out of town a lot, if interested. Sorry to hear the direction you may go.

 

[sorka]

AMN, it must be something wrong with the suspension on your P85D. So, did they replace the dampers on your car, since you now have the standard suspension?
All I want is the same suspension as the P85+ on the PxxD.

Me too. I fell in love all over again with the suspension on the P85+ loaner I had last week.

 

[pax]

Thanks everyone for comments and suggestions. So I have more data to share:

1. End of line date was April 13th, delivered in May.
2. Rear shocks part numbers: 6006352-07-A & 6006353-07-A. Different because one was replaced while attempting to solve a cluncking sound in the rear right.
3. Front shocks part number: 1030608-01-A
4. Sway bar diameters: Front 24mm, rear 20mm

Sounds like there are a few of us that would like the suspension we test drove. I don't understand why Tesla would not just replace sway bars for us. Heck, I would even buy them if they just said "sorry we messed up, do you want to buy the other sway bars?".

 

[Andyw2100]

We really need more numbers, since Sorka, Lola and my own are all different, so far.

If you or someone else will explain what to do, as if explaining it to a third grader, I'll endeavor to measure the sway bars on my December built P85D with air suspension. I do not know where to find the sway bars, what they look like, etc., which is why I ask for the detailed explanation in terms a young child would understand.

I imagine there are others like me who have not offered up data yet who would be happy to if we knew how to, so if someone takes the time to write up instructions, I bet there will be a lot of new data that comes in shortly thereafter.

Thanks.

 

[3mp_kwh]

This is the front left tire. It is facing down, and to the right. With the steering wheel cranked right, you should be able to get a bite on the thickness of this bar (red arrow).

Note how this is not a 'D', for lack of a drive shaft. If you measure a drive shaft, tie-rod, or sway bar drop link (vertical), you'll be getting numbers outside of the 20-28mm range (the tie rod might be close, but in front you are likely to find 24-28mm, where tie-rod looks ~20mm at most).

Anything that spans wide enough to get around the bar, perhaps a tie strap (zipped, cut, then measured) should work, and you shouldn't need to raise the car.

 

[Andyw2100]

This is the front left tire. It is facing down, and to the right. With the steering wheel cranked right, you should be able to get a bite on the thickness of this bar (red arrow).

Note how this is not a 'D', for lack of a drive shaft. If you measure a drive shaft, tie-rod, or sway bar drop link (vertical), you'll be getting numbers well outside of the 20-28mm range.

Anything that spans wide enough to get around the bar, perhaps a tie strap (zipped, cut, then measured) should work, and you shouldn't need to raise the car.

Yes, if I can't do it without raising the car, it isn't happening!

I'm assuming that if I'm measuring at the left wheel, with the steering wheel turned all the way to the right, I'd have to access the sway bar from behind the front left wheel in order to measure it. Is that correct?

Edit: Are tie straps things most people just have laying around the house? I had to Google it just to figure out what the heck you were talking about. I'll be looking for a piece of string, and it's not inconceivable that I'll wind up having to re-lace one of my sneakers later.

Edit 2: This is not likely to be the most accurate data collected.

 

[Andyw2100]

I gave it a shot, but I can't seem to get close to the part in your picture.

Could the fact that my suspension is currently set to very high be adversely affecting my ability to do this for some reason? It seems to me the wheels aren't turned nearly far enough for me to be able to get to where the sway bar would be.

Edit:

The following post says I should have been trying to measure from the front. But I don't understand how I could measure the left tire from the front if it's turned to the right.

.
Can someone with air and someone with coil please go out and measure their sway bar diameters. The front is easy. Just turn the wheels all the way to the left or right and you can reach in there in front of the wheel. The rear is harder and easier if you back your car up on service ramps.

If you don't have a caliper, then use a zip tie and tie it down around the bar. Then cut it and measure the length in mm. Then divide by 3.14 to get the diameter.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Might try going in from front, then. I had mine in the air, which is obviously easier. If anyone has a jack, the jack pads on the Model S have to be some of the easiest, ever, to work with (groved, behind/ahead of wheels).

 

[lolachampcar]

I drove my wife's S85 last night (newer rear bushings and on coils) and it really reminded me just how much progress Tesla made with the early delivery PDs. I've not experienced the rock hard suspension others have mentioned and I've spent a lot of time in 99x and M5 variants. My PD handles well without all the jaring shock making it through from the road to your butt and it does not have a hint of the straight line instability of the S85 (which is not bad by normal car standards but very noticeable coming out of my PD).

If there is anyone in the WPB area, I would be more than happy to trade quick drives with other PD owners as I would like a feel for how much of my car's feel is wheel/tire related versus date of manufacture. I can even toss in a Mac drive if there is time

 

[yak-55]

My observations are purely qualitative but I *very much* like the handling and ride of my early (Dec 2014 delivery) VIN P85D on 19" MXMs with air. While straight line bump impacts to one side are clearly transmitted laterally to some extent, I don't find the head snatch significant. Bump compliance is "just right" for my tastes in a performance sedan. My only desires would be: crisper initial turn in (probably on account of my current wheel and tire choice), a little less under steer, more total lateral grip at the limit (one can never have enough!), and if I'm picky, less dive on hard braking. The AWD helps a lot, but it seems the traction control limits FW power application excessively in corners and on exit compared to other AWD experience I have. Perhaps this is simply due to insufficient front traction (see tire choice again), but the balance toward understeer chosen by Tesla is a little "conservative" for my preference.

Compared to my limited experience (loaner) in P85+ (sorry, don't know the build date) on air and 21"s my early P85D is much better overall for my tastes. The P85+ I drove (by comparison) wandered on the highway, was softer in compliance, and was downright squirrely on corner exit under hard acceleration. I do think the initial turn in was better in the P85+ - again, probably due to stiffer sidewall and stickier tires at the front.

i'm sure Lola can explain/clarify all of this better than I, and probably put it on a much more sound technical basis. I for one wouldn't trade my early VIN PD for any other Tesla setup I know of.

My P+ on air springs was slightly more compliant in bump then my PD and slightly less compliant when moved the P+ to coils. Roll stiffness was significantly more on the P+ as was understeer tendency although that is likely due to the PD's ability to pull the front wheels through a corner instead of the rear wheels pushing the fronts.

 

[jpet]

Late January 2015 delivery P85D
26mm front
21mm rear
both measurements were taken from the trailing run of the sway bars and assume the transverse portion of the bar is the same diameter. I'd have to throw it up on a lift to get access to the transverse torsional portion of the bar.

To get some more data points, I got on my knees as well.
My P85D was built late January and it has staggered 21" wheels and air suspension.
I just measured using calipers and it is also 26mm front and 21mm rear.

For those wanting to measure their sway bars as well, I was only able to measure the front sway bar by going in at the front of the wheel. I measured at the passenger wheel with steering turned completely to the right and suspension on very high. The rear sway bar is much more difficult to measure but it is feasible. I used a light so that I could clearly see the black sway bar between the spokes of the front halve of the wheel. Then I went in from below, holding my calipers upwards inserting it in the small gap between the wheel and the car. I was just able to put the calipers around the sway bar and read the result using the light.

 

[Andyw2100]

For those wanting to measure their sway bars as well, I was only able to measure the front sway bar by going in at the front of the wheel. I measured at the passenger wheel with steering turned completely to the right and suspension on very high. The rear sway bar is much more difficult to measure but it is feasible. I used a light so that I could clearly see the black sway bar between the spokes of the front halve of the wheel. Then I went in from below, holding my calipers upwards inserting it in the small gap between the wheel and the car. I was just able to put the calipers around the sway bar and read the result using the light.

So the instructions I was given to measure the sway bar at the left front wheel by turning the wheel all the way to the right were incorrect. There was clearly no way to access the sway bar from the front with the wheel turned that way, so I had to try from the back, and just couldn't find it. I crawled around on my garage floor for quite a while trying.

At some point if I come across a caliper (or buy one) I may try again, but the measurement I was likely to get probably wouldn't have been all that accurate anyway, and I'm disinclined to crawl around on my garage floor and fail again.

Edit: I just ordered a caliper on Amazon, so I guess I will try again.

 

[jpet]

By the way, Andy, you will probably see blue and/or pink marks on the black sway bars. I assume a result of QC.

 

[sorka]

Here's mine with the wheel turned all the way:

The blue dot is on the sway bar. There's not quite enough room for me to reach my hand between the tire and the wheel well, but if I lay on my back and reach underneath with the caliper it's easy. I can see everything through the space you see in the photo.

The rear can also be reached without jacking up, but you have to know where the sway bar is to reach it because you can't see it otherwise.

 

[jpet]

And here is a picture of the rear sway bar taken from between the spokes of the wheel and using a strong light. The sway bar has a blue mark.

 

[Andyw2100]

Here's mine with the wheel turned all the way:

View attachment 93894

The blue dot is on the sway bar. There's not quite enough room for me to reach my hand between the tire and the wheel well, but if I lay on my back and reach underneath with the caliper it's easy. I can see everything through the space you see in the photo.

The rear can also be reached without jacking up, but you have to know where the sway bar is to reach it because you can't see it otherwise.

I appreciate the help, you guys.

sorka--can you just tell me:

--which tire that's a picture of
--which way the wheel is turned
--are you looking at it from in front of it or from behind it?

If I were to guess, I'd guess that's your left front wheel, turned to the left, and you're looking at it from behind, so it's not turned all the way to the left.

Spatial stuff, and anything like this is really not where my strengths lie, obviously.

But now that I have a caliper on the way...

Thanks!

 

[sorka]

I appreciate the help, you guys.

sorka--can you just tell me:

--which tire that's a picture of
--which way the wheel is turned
--are you looking at it from in front of it or from behind it?

If I were to guess, I'd guess that's your left front wheel, turned to the left, and you're looking at it from behind, so it's not turned all the way to the left.

Spatial stuff, and anything like this is really not where my strengths lie, obviously.

But now that I have a caliper on the way...

Thanks!

Sorry. Should have taken one further back for context. It's the front right wheel and the opening is between the front of the tire and the front right fender.