Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
The caliper will arrive while my car is in for service. If they give me a P85D as a loaner, I'll endeavor to measure the sway bar on it while I have it. I'll try to measure the one on my car when I get it back.
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P85D (pre/post April) ride performance
- Thread starter marty2112
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Thanks!
The caliper will arrive while my car is in for service. If they give me a P85D as a loaner, I'll endeavor to measure the sway bar on it while I have it. I'll try to measure the one on my car when I get it back.
Those wanting a shot at the early P85D air spring/dampers, or "plus suspension" are directed to:
Smart Air Suspension from March 2015 P85D
You'll still need the 26/21mm sway bar upgrade, to get all the way there. However, the above would be the expensive part. I don't know the seller, and am just passing this along. The part number confirms early rear P85D.
Smart Air Suspension from March 2015 P85D
You'll still need the 26/21mm sway bar upgrade, to get all the way there. However, the above would be the expensive part. I don't know the seller, and am just passing this along. The part number confirms early rear P85D.
Blu Zap
Grinning member
Ha! Did not know that they had reduced suspension performance from the + to the D. Thanks for all your insight. I have aP85+ built in the last week of September 2014, so it has AutoPilot. Suspension is fabulous compared to the P85s available at that time. The + handles like all it can. Better than any D I have driven. Now consider, do you want to play with a RWD or have a AWD. Big difference.
Its not reduced. P85D/P90D have the best handling of the Model S tested on Motortrend on figure eight test and handling averaging 0.81 g that is better than the P85+ 25.3 sec 0.74 g (avg).
"Despite its portly 4,689-pound curb weight, the P90D laps the figure eight in 24.7 seconds, averaging 0.81 g. Steering feel is general pretty good, though you quickly become aware of the Tesla’s weight after a few laps once the tires and brakes get hot. Even still, the Tesla’s figure eight time makes it the fastest pure electric car we’ve ever lapped round our famous course of cones." -Motortrend
Dual motor have many differences and improvement from earlier rwd like thicker sway bars, different dampers ++ and better tuned for the higher top speed and not so unstable like the earlier rwd are above 200 kph.
Its a reason all rwd including the P85+ get a free retrofit in Germany with better suspension parts to make it more stable at high speed. Its a service bulletin for that, but only for Germany.
"Despite its portly 4,689-pound curb weight, the P90D laps the figure eight in 24.7 seconds, averaging 0.81 g. Steering feel is general pretty good, though you quickly become aware of the Tesla’s weight after a few laps once the tires and brakes get hot. Even still, the Tesla’s figure eight time makes it the fastest pure electric car we’ve ever lapped round our famous course of cones." -Motortrend
Dual motor have many differences and improvement from earlier rwd like thicker sway bars, different dampers ++ and better tuned for the higher top speed and not so unstable like the earlier rwd are above 200 kph.
Its a reason all rwd including the P85+ get a free retrofit in Germany with better suspension parts to make it more stable at high speed. Its a service bulletin for that, but only for Germany.
2013 Tesla Model S P85+ Arrival - Motor Trend2013 Tesla Model S P85+ Arrival - Motor Trend
easiest google search ever: motortrend p85+ 0.74g
easiest google search ever: motortrend p85+ 0.74g
Ok you got me. For past posts I searched and collected handling stats on various MS and didnt remeber coming across that one. But I was rembering their skidpad for the same car at .92g
Looking at the figure 8 course they have a pre april p85d at 25 sec and .77g for the fig 8 and .91 on skid pad. 2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend
So the post April PnnD does a little better on the fig 8 than pre April.
Looking at the figure 8 course they have a pre april p85d at 25 sec and .77g for the fig 8 and .91 on skid pad. 2015 Tesla Model S P85D First Test - Motor Trend
So the post April PnnD does a little better on the fig 8 than pre April.
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Since you have a late 2014 your P85+ may be better than a earlier P85+ since I know by looking in the part catalog that they have done some changes 
Also I think we can say they are all very close and is not possible to make a conclusion based on the motortrend tests alone. The weather may have been different, warmer temperature better grip +++ many variables. I think they have to be tested the same day
A later test from motortrend show a slower time but better skid pad g for P85D (25.2 sec @ 0.79 g (avg) so the tests are not 100%.
2015 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat vs 2015 Tesla Model S P85D
Also different fw versions may impact since Tesla can have modified how aggressive the ESP is, I think my car is a bit less aggressive on cutting power when taking corners fast than before. And the ESP slows the car down very much on the track since you have to go straight before you get full power after it is reduced.
Maybe motortrend was given access to turn off ESP/TC completly when doing the P90D test. They write the car did make a 10.9 1/4 but nobody else have done that
Also I think we can say they are all very close and is not possible to make a conclusion based on the motortrend tests alone. The weather may have been different, warmer temperature better grip +++ many variables. I think they have to be tested the same day
A later test from motortrend show a slower time but better skid pad g for P85D (25.2 sec @ 0.79 g (avg) so the tests are not 100%.
2015 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat vs 2015 Tesla Model S P85D
Also different fw versions may impact since Tesla can have modified how aggressive the ESP is, I think my car is a bit less aggressive on cutting power when taking corners fast than before. And the ESP slows the car down very much on the track since you have to go straight before you get full power after it is reduced.
Maybe motortrend was given access to turn off ESP/TC completly when doing the P90D test. They write the car did make a 10.9 1/4 but nobody else have done that
it's likely that the small variations from test to test means that there is not any underlying significatn handling quality difference of the different MS variations (early/late P+s and pre and post April PDs).
I think the biggest determiner of MS handling is the aggressive traction control (at least in the PD models) which makes it difficult to explore the true edges of the handling capabilities of the car (and simultaneously keeps the car out of more ditches and guardrails).
Even tire choice didn't seem to make much a difference in performance between A/S and summer tires in other MS skidpad tests.
I think the biggest determiner of MS handling is the aggressive traction control (at least in the PD models) which makes it difficult to explore the true edges of the handling capabilities of the car (and simultaneously keeps the car out of more ditches and guardrails).
Even tire choice didn't seem to make much a difference in performance between A/S and summer tires in other MS skidpad tests.
Yes agree. The the stability control and traction control is way to aggressive. It starts to reduce the power long before traction limits when using the car on the track or driving fast in corners. I think its a g sensor that is used to just cut the power when above some limit.
Maybe @wk057 have tested if it is some handling improvements when ESC/TCS is off?
Maybe @wk057 have tested if it is some handling improvements when ESC/TCS is off?
26mm is the bigger bar that lead some early P85D customers to complain about stiffness, or "head snatch". But I thought it typically mated to a 21mm [edited from 22] rear, no?
I was at Watkins Glen with AWD a week ago and was able to consistently trigger traction control on two of the (12) turns. The brake zone of each is on the way down a hill. A little wheel slip at the entry seems to be a trigger for the power cut, until the steering wheel is straight again. Generally, it didn't happen in high speed turns and was a lot of fun. AWD is very stable, and fast. I hope Tesla comes up with something that gives power back sooner. To lose performance between the apex and track-out, over something you did at the entry, puts a wet blanket on things.
I was at Watkins Glen with AWD a week ago and was able to consistently trigger traction control on two of the (12) turns. The brake zone of each is on the way down a hill. A little wheel slip at the entry seems to be a trigger for the power cut, until the steering wheel is straight again. Generally, it didn't happen in high speed turns and was a lot of fun. AWD is very stable, and fast. I hope Tesla comes up with something that gives power back sooner. To lose performance between the apex and track-out, over something you did at the entry, puts a wet blanket on things.
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Another data point on the P85D loaner I've had for a few days:
Sticker on door jamb shows 12/2014 date
front bar appears to be 26mm per my calipers
I have an August 2013 P85+ and will measure its front bar when I Get it back from service.
When I drove the loaner off the lot I felt it was more firm that my P85+ and immediately thought of this thread. A greater percentage of road bumps are felt across the board. It doesn't feel like sway bars are the culprit to me, but dampers. I happened to take a test drive with the tech on my car on the bumpy roads in front of the Dallas service center right before I left in the P85D so I had a nice back-to-back test. Both cars are on 21" PS2s. My wife said she felt it was definitely bumpier as well. The difference isn't huge though and I suspect is less than the difference between an S85 and a P85+.
The drive experience in the P85D does feel flatter, and I have to admit, it seems more like a full on sport package. Surprisingly, even though I have complained about my P85+'s ride, in some ways I like the P85D more. Maybe it is the power, or perhaps the greater commitment to simply being "sporty" vs. somewhere in between. Interesting nonetheless.
Sticker on door jamb shows 12/2014 date
front bar appears to be 26mm per my calipers
I have an August 2013 P85+ and will measure its front bar when I Get it back from service.
When I drove the loaner off the lot I felt it was more firm that my P85+ and immediately thought of this thread. A greater percentage of road bumps are felt across the board. It doesn't feel like sway bars are the culprit to me, but dampers. I happened to take a test drive with the tech on my car on the bumpy roads in front of the Dallas service center right before I left in the P85D so I had a nice back-to-back test. Both cars are on 21" PS2s. My wife said she felt it was definitely bumpier as well. The difference isn't huge though and I suspect is less than the difference between an S85 and a P85+.
The drive experience in the P85D does feel flatter, and I have to admit, it seems more like a full on sport package. Surprisingly, even though I have complained about my P85+'s ride, in some ways I like the P85D more. Maybe it is the power, or perhaps the greater commitment to simply being "sporty" vs. somewhere in between. Interesting nonetheless.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
3mp,
The Glen One of my most favorite tracks. Beware the blue bushes. I'm jealous.
Cab,
I could not agree more on the sport suspension in the PD. I came out of a P+ into the PD and loved the changes. Slightly more aggressive damping combined with what felt like less bar. The less bar feeling could have been the front motor doing more of the work getting the nose through a corner requiring less work (and thus less feedback) from the front bar. My PD still suffers from head snatch over sleeping policemen but it is not as bad as my old P+.
It is the lack of that suspension that is keeping me from a 10.8 second Model S. The new cars are significantly faster but I simply can not give up that sport suspension.
back to dreaming about the Glen
The Glen
One of my most favorite tracks. Beware the blue bushes. I'm jealous.Cab,
I could not agree more on the sport suspension in the PD. I came out of a P+ into the PD and loved the changes. Slightly more aggressive damping combined with what felt like less bar. The less bar feeling could have been the front motor doing more of the work getting the nose through a corner requiring less work (and thus less feedback) from the front bar. My PD still suffers from head snatch over sleeping policemen but it is not as bad as my old P+.
It is the lack of that suspension that is keeping me from a 10.8 second Model S. The new cars are significantly faster but I simply can not give up that sport suspension.
back to dreaming about the Glen
The S's, lola. What I'm curious about, having a lowered coil car, is which setup you'd go back to after approaching the ~90-100mph off-camber left, before the gentle right onto the back straight. The car's weight balance excels, here, and it's pretty much all guts. With coil, the transition is a ginger, predictable weight shift up past 100mph, reaching 120+mph. Having owned air, but not early P85D air, I had no regrets. I think the feedback of oil/gas shocks is better, and this is the pudding.
The turns I'm talking about earlier are the end of the front straight (the "90"), and the "heel of the boot". Good places to consider trail braking, which leads to the two main criticisms. Tesla still chimes you for hitting the brake and throttle together (not that big a deal), and the power cut if you attempt to point the car (triggering a wheel sensor). What people need to expect is a ~300hp / 4,800lb car, for most of their track time. Full power goes away pretty quick. I was expecting the ~225kw limit, having seen the Nurbergring videos. That said, its still a fun car and the limiters are less of a problem, or noticed, when you've already lost power anyway. The steering wheel "boost", at 10-15 degrees before full straight, is then more of just a tap. On the street, its a shove.
Imagine, we were on fresh pavement the week after Nascar left. No more cement. It was so fresh, that when one of the 911's blew an oil hose they gave up on the kitty litter and went straight to detergent and water. They scrubbed it!
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