P85D styling not distinctive enough?

[Perfect_Flaw]

and better suspension/handling.

oh, and better brakes.

oh, and better acceleration.

oh, and better traction.

oh, and higher top speed.

oh, and Autopilot sensors.

oh, and it's quieter.

oh, and the seats are a lot better.

oh, and it has more range.


but yeah, other than that, it's the exact same car you drive.

LOL- you trying to justify you spending $25,000 more than my P85 for such minimal, if any differences other than .8 seconds to 60MPH?

My car has a staggered wheel setup with 255/295's in it and lowered coil suspension which with this setup would out handle the P85D without issue.

range difference? What, 2-3%? HAHA ok, pal.

Seats better? They don't look much better- why don't you see what the reviews say, your spending $3500 for seats! Haha...

its quieter? How so? My car is plenty quiet, then again, I have a custom JL audio system which is what I listed to when driving my car, who cares. Does it float on air instead of tires now?

Wow you can go 155MPH instead of my 130MPH. I guess in Maryland where you live the speed limits and laws are much more lax then here in SoCal, good for you!

better traction? My car has better traction than a standard P85 and has zero issues, maybe in no mans land where you live the weather is poor and you need all the traction u can get- here's a tip- all 4 wheels can slide too! Watch that black ice, little fella.

autopilot sensors mean nothing to me. My Mercedes had ACC, blind spot detection, lane departure, pedestrian warning, etc/ none of which I ever used or cared for. If you need that junk stop texting and driving and pay attention to the road and drive the car yourself.

once again the small details you mentioned are not worth the $25,000+ premium you are paying over a similarly equipped inventory P85 right now. The same car I have that I bought for $99K with almost every option would cost me $126K just to have a P85D. All just to go .8 seconds faster to 60MPH.

 

[Yorkshire_By_Eck]

LOL- you trying to justify you spending $25,000 more than my P85 for such minimal, if any differences other than .8 seconds to 60MPH?

My car has a staggered wheel setup with 255/295's in it and lowered coil suspension which with this setup would out handle the P85D without issue.

range difference? What, 2-3%? HAHA ok, pal.

Seats better? They don't look much better- why don't you see what the reviews say, your spending $3500 for seats! Haha...

its quieter? How so? My car is plenty quiet, then again, I have a custom JL audio system which is what I listed to when driving my car, who cares. Does it float on air instead of tires now?

Wow you can go 155MPH instead of my 130MPH. I guess in Maryland where you live the speed limits and laws are much more lax then here in SoCal, good for you!

better traction? My car has better traction than a standard P85 and has zero issues, maybe in no mans land where you live the weather is poor and you need all the traction u can get- here's a tip- all 4 wheels can slide too! Watch that black ice, little fella.

autopilot sensors mean nothing to me. My Mercedes had ACC, blind spot detection, lane departure, pedestrian warning, etc/ none of which I ever used or cared for. If you need that junk stop texting and driving and pay attention to the road and drive the car yourself.

once again the small details you mentioned are not worth the $25,000+ premium you are paying over a similarly equipped inventory P85 right now. The same car I have that I bought for $99K with almost every option would cost me $126K just to have a P85D. All just to go .8 seconds faster to 60MPH.

Well, try as I might not too, and without doubt, against my better judgement, here goes.....

0.8 to 1 second improvement in 0-60 times is a lot - toward 25% improvement, and this before software tweeks that may improve the gap further. The German auto manufactures, know how to charge handsomely for a 25% improvement in acceleration. And with over 200bhp power gain, I would imagine acceleration gains in more important areas - like for overtaking (time exposed to danger) will be even more useful.

For those really wanting to standout from an S60, you can have red calipers and a rear spoiler (neither options apart from the P85D as of now)

Being in my early 40's, I have come to realise, that having the fastest car is not so important to me - money is not the overriding reason for not buying the most powerful model, call it pragmatism if you want.
and yes I have done track days, owned super cars, (still have one), so have a slight insight, though not enough talent to really benefit.

This is a road car - a D may have AWD and be quick compared to a great number of cars, but a Land Rover defender with a rattley diesel engine, will still be quicker over a ploughed field.
that is the same reason a Radical SR3RSX will be quicker around the Nurgbering than something exotic from either the Germans, Italians, Japanese etc - but will be stuffed on the road when it gets to a big speed bump (not totally true - ref the speed bump - but it makes the point)
The model S is a road car, there are more luxurious, better handling, bigger, faster, smaller, slower versions of lots of things, but I ordered one, because I like it.
And for those who have a plain looking 'P' they have a fast, understated car, that draws little attention and therefore allows good progress to be achieved, from A to B.
I wonder (hypothetically) if an s60 would be quicker than a Corvette (if the police were following the corvette, waiting for the driver to prove it's performance)

I for one started reading this thread, hoping to see, if people were starting to see P85D's out on the road - test drives being done etc.. 8 pages of petty squabbling has been a touch uninspiring...
live and let live, and chill out.

 

[jimmyjohn]

Exterior Styling Ratings (Poor 1 --- 10 Excellent):

BMW 535i = 4 -- looks like a 1985 Ford Escort
BMW M5 = 8

MB CLS550 = 5 -- okay, but nothing spectacular
MB CLS63 = 8

Tesla Model S60 = 10
Tesla Model P85D = 10

Here's the point ----- with MB and BMW and Audi, the intro car looks like a piece of crap with a fancy badge.

With Tesla Motors, every car is a rolling work of automotive art that will stand the test of time.

 

[Olle]

I am very surprised that the flagship performance car, the P85D, looks exactly like a 60 or 85 from the exterior. When commanding that type of premium price, why not have it stand apart from the exterior besides a simple badge, red calipers, and stick on carbon fiber spoiler (none of which this P85D has, looks like a barebones 60 w/ 21's) that everyone else has? Tesla needs to do what BMW, Mercedes, and Audi do- have clear distinctive exterior enhancements like their M, AMG, and S cars. I understand Tesla is maximizing profits, but come on here Elon.. this $130K "supercar-like" performance car looks like your $70K version, but faster. Where are the suspension enhancements? Carbon ceramic brakes? You know, the things that upgrade premium performance cars get with the premium price upgrade. The P85D should even have its own unique 21" wheel design, specific to the P85D.

"stand apart from the exterior" What would be the purpose of that exactly?
IMHO it is great that P85D looks like the base model which is already a beautiful car. I would like to have a P85D, just because of the way it drives, and am actually glad that people wouldn't see what it is, at least not from afar. The ones who are into cars can read the badge when they come to my house and maybe be excited about it there.

AMG looks to gaudy IMO.

That's what is so liberating about Tesla, that they don't think in analogies, as in "the other manufacturers pimp up their performance versions, we need to do it too"

They realize that people are thrilled with great acceleration so that's what they give us.

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't understand what you mean by "stand apart from the exterior" What would be the purpose of that exactly?

I think you know the purpose, but dismiss it because

AMG looks to gaudy.

Perfectly fine opinion to have, of course, but let's not create circular discussion.

 

[Vitaman]

Have to agree with Perfect_Flaw on most of his thoughts.
Having the top of the line model be more distinctive is a tried and true practice.
In virtually all of his examples, the performance models are more striking and interesting to look at.
There are always folks who want the "ultimate sleeper" and de-badge their cars. The most base Tesla will never be a Sleeper......it will always be noticed. The lines are just too good.
You can never please everyone. Some would be very disappointed if the D came with a body kit (even if it was attractive) and other subtle styling changes.
Hardly anyone would mind if it also came with mechanical improvements (Ceramic brakes).
Do not know the logistics but it would not be shocking if a year or two down the road you had a choice of a D that looked mostly like an S or a D that stood out from the crowd (for extra cost of course).

 

[bonnie]

Moderator note: No surprise, some posts moved to snippiness - Page 119. There are probably more to be moved, but I haven't had my first latte with the rest of my chodes yet over at the local Starbucks, so just not moving as quickly as I used to. -eye roll-

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

Moderator note: No surprise, some posts moved to snippiness - Page 119. There are probably more to be moved, but I haven't had my first latte with the rest of my chodes yet over at the local Starbucks, so just not moving as quickly as I used to. -eye roll-

haha! Now that is funny...

 

[hockeythug]

haha! Now that is funny...

Your personal attacks are not welcomed here. Take that elsewhere.

 

[rage_777]

LOL- you trying to justify you spending $25,000 more than my P85 for such minimal, if any differences other than .8 seconds to 60MPH?

My car has a staggered wheel setup with 255/295's in it and lowered coil suspension which with this setup would out handle the P85D without issue.

range difference? What, 2-3%? HAHA ok, pal.

Seats better? They don't look much better- why don't you see what the reviews say, your spending $3500 for seats! Haha...

its quieter? How so? My car is plenty quiet, then again, I have a custom JL audio system which is what I listed to when driving my car, who cares. Does it float on air instead of tires now?

Wow you can go 155MPH instead of my 130MPH. I guess in Maryland where you live the speed limits and laws are much more lax then here in SoCal, good for you!

better traction? My car has better traction than a standard P85 and has zero issues, maybe in no mans land where you live the weather is poor and you need all the traction u can get- here's a tip- all 4 wheels can slide too! Watch that black ice, little fella.

autopilot sensors mean nothing to me. My Mercedes had ACC, blind spot detection, lane departure, pedestrian warning, etc/ none of which I ever used or cared for. If you need that junk stop texting and driving and pay attention to the road and drive the car yourself.

once again the small details you mentioned are not worth the $25,000+ premium you are paying over a similarly equipped inventory P85 right now. The same car I have that I bought for $99K with almost every option would cost me $126K just to have a P85D. All just to go .8 seconds faster to 60MPH.

So with all this talk about how the D is just like the 60 and not worth the money, why did you buy the P85 instead of the 60? As you said, it's the same car but with a faster 0-60 time. Why did you waste your money for a car that looks exactly the same? Why not buy the S85 and save some money? Why not get the 85+ since you are a "track enthusiast".

I do love your choice of cars, Z06 and GT-R.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

So with all this talk about how the D is just like the 60 and not worth the money, why did you buy the P85 instead of the 60? As you said, it's the same car but with a faster 0-60 time. Why did you waste your money for a car that looks exactly the same? Why not buy the S85 and save some money? Why not get the 85+ since you are a "track enthusiast".

I do love your choice of cars, Z06 and GT-R.

Thanks, I love the Z06 and GT-R. I actually have a Porsche GT3 on order as well that will be my new track-only race car but need to sell another vehicle to free up some cash

Honestly, I was originally just going to buy the 85. But I got such a huge discount on a inventory P85 with the same options, it was a difference of only $5,000. The thing is, the P85 is only faster than the S85 from 0-60. After that, both trap the same MPH in the 1/4 mile and feel the same. I expect the P85D to be a very similar story, as the torque and horsepower drop dramatically as the RPMs rise. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it didnt make sense to spend $20K more for an improvement only in the 0-60 area. But as I said, the deal I got changed my mind quickly as I was perfectly fine with the 85kw version for a street driving car with no other performance enhancements other than 0-60 times for the P85.

 

[mdevp]

Thread got a little derailed there....but to the OP's question, yeah I wouldn't mind a little fender flare, wider tires etc. People have mentioned mercedes to AMG versions, but I like the bmw 3series to M3 conversion historically. A bit beefier with the aero look might work for the P85D , but have to be very careful with making it subtle.

 

[ENZA]

Thread got a little derailed there....but to the OP's question, yeah I wouldn't mind a little fender flare, wider tires etc. People have mentioned mercedes to AMG versions, but I like the bmw 3series to M3 conversion historically. A bit beefier with the aero look might work for the P85D , but have to be very careful with making it subtle.

+1. Then again, I don't mind that my car looks exactly like one that's thousands more. :smile:

 

[AnOutsider]

Some more posts moved to snippiness.

This is a valid concern and discussion folks. As we weed out the negativity, let's please try to move forward with constructive

 

[Canuck]

Some more posts moved to snippiness.

This is a valid concern and discussion folks. As we weed out the negativity, let's please try to move forward with constructive

I understand why certain posts, including mine, were moved to snippiness. But the issue of whether it actually is a "valid concern" should be a point that is up for debate, in a constructive manner, and not taken as a fact. Some of us feel that this is not a valid concern, as the designers of the cars must also, since they chose to design it exactly the way it is -- without any distinctive features.

 

[Notacarguy]

The very fact that that the title of this thread refers to "styling" really says it all. I am having a hard time following the logic. At times the OP is hung up on looks, but then he/she starts going on about how the D does not have the advancements in performance to justify the money.

I think its up to each buyer to determine whether the improved numbers and specs are worth their money. If you don't feel its enough, so be it, but from what I have seen on the boards many people feel the performance boost is worth it.

As for styling differences I agree with most of the others, I would rather TESLA spend its time improving performance and the technology that goes into the car. I didn't buy the car because it was the best looking car out there, I bought it because it is an electric car, that performs amazingly for what it is intended to be, a family sedan, not a track car, with terrific tech features and its a joy to drive.

I am in the faction that doesn't need something bolted on to let people know I spent more money than the other guy driving a different Model S. Although in my case it would not be possible unless you are driving a salvage Model S because i got a sweet deal on a demo.

If you can do 0-6 in 3.2 in a family sedan and are still unhappy then you may be beyond help.

 

[TexasEV]

The Model S is a beautiful design and there's no reason to clutter it up with gimmicks that show who paid more for it.

 

[chickensevil]

I understand why certain posts, including mine, were moved to snippiness. But the issue of whether it actually is a "valid concern" should be a point that is up for debate, in a constructive manner, and not taken as a fact. Some of us feel that this is not a valid concern, as the designers of the cars must also, since they chose to design it exactly the way it is -- without any distinctive features.

Again, it is hard to improve upon an already 99.9% perfect body design. About the only thing useful that Saleen could do to the body was change the nose cone which does get a lot of hate from many people... that being said there is NO WAY Tesla is going to change the nose cone now since it makes the Model S very distinctive at this point. Meaning, for better or worse I am not expecting them to change the weakest part of the design any time soon.

Outside of that, as I pointed out above, the car has one of the lowest drag coefficients on the market. A body kit or air intake changes are very likely to dramatically change that cd in a negative way... which means, it won't be touched. If you notice the changes on the Mercedes and BMWs to the performance cars a lot have to do with the fact that they are sticking a far more suped up engine in them which needs better airflow ON THE ENGINE which is why the venting on the car changes. The body isn't redesigned just to make it "look cool"... it actually serves a purpose. There is little purpose behind changing the body design of the model S outside of a "looks" perspective... again... unless you change the nose cone... Not gonna happen...

So yeah, I agree that it isn't a "valid concern" because it is hard to make something more perfect when it is already so close to perfection as it is. Tesla and Elon need to work more on just striving for greatness INSTEAD OF perfection in some areas because it is actually slowing things down at the company.

 

[MartinAustin]

Happy to jump into the "People vs. Perfect_Flaw" thread.

I can understand if Chevy and BMW want to do it. If that helps sales, so be it, and there are actually functional reasons for most of those changes.

But Tesla Motors is racing hand over foot to make as many cars as they can, and since the long waiting list proves that there are buyers of what it is they currently make... they do not need to spend any labor hours designing & implementing visual changes that 1) remind P85D owners that their cars are not the base car, and 2) remind knowledgeable onlookers that the owner used more money to buy the car. In fact the amazing speed of the P85D is really a by-product of designing the chassis & drivetrain system for the Model X. They didn't really set out to make a souped-up Model S. It was just happenstance. That's how important it is to Tesla.

They are spending their time finishing off the Model X (of which the AWD platform is a part), and developing the Model 3. Their priorities are clear.

So honestly, while I understand your "valid concern"... Tesla haven't got the time to care about you, not even one bit. They don't care if you stick around or go away and never come back. They are pre-selling every car they can make. If you decide to not buy a Tesla... that "unsold" Tesla car is already going to someone else who wants it.

Your "valid concern" (moderator's words) actually became more severe last week when Tesla revised the website and car configuration choices. The P85+ was only available with the 21" wheels, which ensured that no-one who saw a Model S with 19" wheels would confuse it with a P85+. However, now, the even more expensive P85D can be ordered with 19" wheels! You can make it look almost exactly like a 2012 40kWh car. My P85 is "debadged" - it looks like a 40kWh car depending on the knowledge level of the onlooker. If I switch to a P85D I will get one that looks exactly the same as my current car, and no-one will know I did it. I like that privacy

While I'm here, Perfect_Flaw you should definitely get a P85D, you'll love it no matter what it looks like.

 

[chickensevil]

Happy to jump into the "People vs. Perfect_Flaw" thread.

I can understand if Chevy and BMW want to do it. If that helps sales, so be it, and there are actually functional reasons for most of those changes.

But Tesla Motors is racing hand over foot to make as many cars as they can, and since the long waiting list proves that there are buyers of what it is they currently make... they do not need to spend any labor hours designing & implementing visual changes that 1) remind P85D owners that their cars are not the base car, and 2) remind knowledgeable onlookers that the owner used more money to buy the car. In fact the amazing speed of the P85D is really a by-product of designing the chassis & drivetrain system for the Model X. They didn't really set out to make a souped-up Model S. It was just happenstance. That's how important it is to Tesla.

They are spending their time finishing off the Model X (of which the AWD platform is a part), and developing the Model 3. Their priorities are clear.

So honestly, while I understand your "valid concern"... Tesla haven't got the time to care about you, not even one bit. They don't care if you stick around or go away and never come back. They are pre-selling every car they can make. If you decide to not buy a Tesla... that "unsold" Tesla car is already going to someone else who wants it.

Your "valid concern" (moderator's words) actually became more severe last week when Tesla revised the website and car configuration choices. The P85+ was only available with the 21" wheels, which ensured that no-one who saw a Model S with 19" wheels would confuse it with a P85+. However, now, the even more expensive P85D can be ordered with 19" wheels! You can make it look almost exactly like a 2012 40kWh car. My P85 is "debadged" - it looks like a 40kWh car depending on the knowledge level of the onlooker. If I switch to a P85D I will get one that looks exactly the same as my current car, and no-one will know I did it. I like that privacy

While I'm here, Perfect_Flaw you should definitely get a P85D, you'll love it no matter what it looks like.

Yeah, as I keep trying to convince myself that upgrading my car would be a bad idea, I constantly find myself back in the design studio, and I have the regular ole 85 without anything fancy. Even as I switch between choices I always instinctively want to pick the same 19" wheels, the same paint color, deselect the spoiler and red brakes, and stick on the pano roof. So the studio shows the car visually in the exact same look as my current build from the outside. If I ever did an upgrade that would be exactly what I would do too, because I really like how MY car looks and would want to repeat that.

On the other hand, there are nice little flairs that you can choose to do to it... I love the choice that they give you and you aren't stuck between just picking between 3 trims and pick a color and calling it a day like so many other brands force you into.