TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

P85D vs. BMW M5 Nighthawk review

Discussion in 'Video' started by Grendal, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,518
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    #1 Grendal, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Interesting Australian review of both cars and does a very good comparison.

     
  2. jgs

    jgs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    934
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Not bad. He seems to be confused about the Tesla brakes though.
     
  3. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    #3 ChadS, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
    I haven't driven a BMW like that so I can't speak from experience...but it sure sounded like a really, really fair comparison. Though it was slightly incomplete - they covered acceleration, price, luxury, tech, handling - but not, say, high speeds (favors BMW) or utility (favors Tesla). Or, of course, efficiency or emissions; not that I expected them to. Their praise and criticism for both cars seemed spot on (except for, as jgs notes, a comment about regen and braking that didn't make sense to me). They didn't seem to be shooting for a pre-determined conclusion or media-and-controversy-invoking rhetoric. Refreshing.

    It's 8:40 long; spoilers for those that don't want to watch: they really love the BMW's steering feel and handling, which really does trump the Tesla's; and it feels very luxurious. But the Tesla is lower-priced, more serene, quicker, and has cool new tech so the reviewer would prefer the Tesla, even after range considerations - he pointed out that with a charger in your garage, it really just doesn't matter.
     
  4. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,518
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    He seemed like someone not used to how they work and comparing them to standard brakes. I'm guessing that the BMW brakes are the very best there are for a traditional automobile. The Tesla, like everything else about the car's drivetrain, works in a completely different way from "standard."
     
  5. jgs

    jgs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    934
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Actually the thing is that the brakes on a Model S are exactly standard friction brakes. No regen on the brake pedal at all.
     
  6. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    From where did they get the 550 kW number for the P85D?
     
  7. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,316
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Yes, the reviewer really did not understand the Model S "deceleration system" at all.
    He completely failed to evaluate the two cars in terms of people and cargo carrying capacity, where the Model S wins handily.
    I was amazed at how expensive a BMW 5 series could be at the top end!
    And I laughed when he said that the Model S could be configured with a long list of options. I think he mentally flipped the BMW and the Tesla options list. The Model S has the shortest option list of any vehicle in its class.
     
  8. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Depends on the market. The night hawk is basically an every option ticked model out of the box, and imported luxury cars in Oz aren't cheap to begin with.

    For another data point, here in the UK the base 70S is half the price of a fully loaded P90DL, so at least in £ terms the option list is pretty extensive ;)

    But then it's a bit like comparing a base 520D to a fully loaded M5.
     
  9. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    A very nice review, seemingly without an agenda for a change. The only thing that raised my hackles a bit was the obligatory discussion of range in the Tesla segment.

    Drive.com.au handled it in a fair manner, but why the need to even bring it up? I'm sure the range of many performance cars is worse than Model S (perhaps even the NightHawk with its twin-turbo V8) yet it never comes up when discussing them. It seems almost a Pavlovian response; Journalists hear "electric vehicle" and immediately "range anxiety" pops into their heads. Is it just the (incorrect) perception than ICE vehicles can be refueled instantly, at all times, no matter where you are or what you are doing, so their range doesn't matter? Or is it something more?

    I'm interested in the psychology that goes into this double standard.

    And really, is a bit of feedback and steering feel worth a $50K premium? Pricing is often brought up when trying to make Model S seem unavailable to the layperson, but what's almost never mentioned is how much of a value it can be in comparison to other performance cars.
     
  10. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    I can only give my psychology not that of a journalist. I have a 200 mile range ICE, and have experienced "range anxiety" in that whilst doing a road trip with it across central Sweden avoiding the main routes. The biggest difference however is the ubiquity of "charge stations".

    Now if you can string together Superchargers to get to a destination it isn't a problem (though my first attempt at this was met with big delays due to congestion :( ). However if you want to deviate, then a level of logistical planning comes in to effect that is simply greater than in the ICE. I _could_ have got to my ultimate destination via Superchargers only, but the scenery and small towns I visited would have been a chunk more challenging in the Tesla, and due to the price of hotels with overnight charging probably negated the fuel savings.

    So range in and of itself isn't necessarily the issue, but the current infrastructure exacerbates the issue. (Probably even more so in the Oz market)

    As for the premium for steering being worth it, that's a tough call. I bought an S60 and used the difference to buy the 200 mile ICE that has arguably the world's best steering feel ;)
     

Share This Page