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P85d vs Long Range Plus. Will I miss the performance?

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Member
May 5, 2014
296
156
The Villages, Florida
400 miles would make my drives so much better. On my Florida-Wisconsin treks I could avoid the downtown Atlanta underground parking lot and the Chattanooga airport superchargers. Heading up the east coast I could skip Savannah airport. If I didn't have to make these long drives I'd spend $20,000 for the P even though I'd probably use it only 5 or 6 times a year just to show my younger friends how cool it is. I rarely floor my 90D now. Don't really have the need.

Right now charging from 200 miles to 280 miles is like watching paint dry. I'd love to be able to charge quickly to 300 miles. And eliminate 2 or 3 supercharger stops.
 

Alysashley79

Active Member
Oct 4, 2013
1,226
536
Seattle(ish) WA
Do you have the + suspension? I do not. I do have air suspension though. I am usually a highway cruiser which people have been raving about in the raven, haven't heard how it does spirited before yourself.
Yes I do have the + one of the few p85d’s out there.

don’t get me wrong. The ravens air suspension is fantastic it’s the performance aspects that the LR didn’t have (again it didn’t have perf tires on so that might make it a little better)

when we bought our first p85 we went around and around. Perf or not perf. We went Perf and never looked back. When we bought used last year we went perf again because while we do a lot of highway cruising it’s also nice to have a good ok spirited time.

fwiw if I were going to buy NEW today I’d go LR just because of the extra range. It wouldn’t be as much fun as my perf is now...but...I can also go farther and charge faster.

im sorry about your battery. My car at 100% soc is 241 miles. 2 miles less than a year ago when I got the car. It’s also now at 62k on the odo so..I’ll take that. In real world this time of year I can go 201 miles from 100% to 1% and that’s mostly freeway driving. I lose 6% to drive 6 miles to get home because it’s a continual climb. 200’ elevation to 2100’ elevation. If I don’t have that issue i think I could likely get 220 actual driven miles. Can I ask wheh you only got 153 did you have AP engaged? For whatever reason for me I seem to do about 10% better when AP is doing the driving.
 

derichio02

Member
Apr 6, 2019
314
179
California
Yes I do have the + one of the few p85d’s out there.

don’t get me wrong. The ravens air suspension is fantastic it’s the performance aspects that the LR didn’t have (again it didn’t have perf tires on so that might make it a little better)

when we bought our first p85 we went around and around. Perf or not perf. We went Perf and never looked back. When we bought used last year we went perf again because while we do a lot of highway cruising it’s also nice to have a good ok spirited time.

fwiw if I were going to buy NEW today I’d go LR just because of the extra range. It wouldn’t be as much fun as my perf is now...but...I can also go farther and charge faster.

im sorry about your battery. My car at 100% soc is 241 miles. 2 miles less than a year ago when I got the car. It’s also now at 62k on the odo so..I’ll take that. In real world this time of year I can go 201 miles from 100% to 1% and that’s mostly freeway driving. I lose 6% to drive 6 miles to get home because it’s a continual climb. 200’ elevation to 2100’ elevation. If I don’t have that issue i think I could likely get 220 actual driven miles. Can I ask wheh you only got 153 did you have AP engaged? For whatever reason for me I seem to do about 10% better when AP is doing the driving.

You have a really good point about the tires. The MS P will have much sticker tires making cornering better, etc. That is one of the first things I did to my 2020 LR since I had my old Raven Performance tires around. I also set the suspension and steering to Sport. The car will feel much better in the canyons but this of course will be at the cost of range. I will likely swap to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ to kind of split the difference. For spirited driving the stock tires on the LR in 19" configuration are garbage. For highway they are fine.
 

Shadious

Member
Jan 11, 2018
381
247
Florida
Also, the performance drops considerably with the SoC. With a charge at 90% or higher, my P85DL will put out over 500hp as indicated by SMT, but at 20% SoC, it's below 400. A newer car with a bigger pack will have a higher SoC for longer, and may perform similarly to an older performance car for more of its charge cycle.

I have a 2014 P85DL with 90k on the clock and recently got a Dragy to do some test runs. Consistently did 0-60 in 3.2/3.1 with out roll out. With roll out was about 2.9. 1/4 mile was 11.6, which was actually better than my drag strip time of 11.7. I am going to realist again with better tires(I have all season Goodyear’s right now). I think the Raven will feel much slower than the P you currently drive...
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,630
4,197
Colorado, USA
Yes I do have the + one of the few p85d’s out there.

don’t get me wrong. The ravens air suspension is fantastic it’s the performance aspects that the LR didn’t have (again it didn’t have perf tires on so that might make it a little better)

when we bought our first p85 we went around and around. Perf or not perf. We went Perf and never looked back. When we bought used last year we went perf again because while we do a lot of highway cruising it’s also nice to have a good ok spirited time.

fwiw if I were going to buy NEW today I’d go LR just because of the extra range. It wouldn’t be as much fun as my perf is now...but...I can also go farther and charge faster.

im sorry about your battery. My car at 100% soc is 241 miles. 2 miles less than a year ago when I got the car. It’s also now at 62k on the odo so..I’ll take that. In real world this time of year I can go 201 miles from 100% to 1% and that’s mostly freeway driving. I lose 6% to drive 6 miles to get home because it’s a continual climb. 200’ elevation to 2100’ elevation. If I don’t have that issue i think I could likely get 220 actual driven miles. Can I ask wheh you only got 153 did you have AP engaged? For whatever reason for me I seem to do about 10% better when AP is doing the driving.
Few? I've got two P85D's with + suspension in the garage right now. One even has Ludicrous. :cool:
 
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PhaseWhite

Member
Aug 12, 2017
863
2,467
Minneapolis,MN
Also in my previous post. I meant a 2015 P85D with 100k miles

Here is a 2020 Raven MS LR with 2 passengers at 69% SOC to compare. It was a pretty windy day(20-30mph) and I was driving into the wind so I can try to get another run this weekend. Also not trying to argue with anyone, just want to be helpful :)

View attachment 567266

It would be great to see some more real world numbers from the S LR as your draggy is the first I’ve seen posted.
 
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cucubits

Active Member
May 17, 2019
1,718
1,748
TX
Without reading through everything here, just on the performance question, ask yourself this: how many times do you floor it on your regular day driving? If the answer is "many times" then probably every small difference will count, but also "what's wrong with you?" :)
If maybe only once a few days, just to amuse yourself, it won't matter that much if at all.
 
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bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,661
6,190
My P85DL which made 458KW when new is down to 443K after 115K miles. So pretty small decline. About 5% degradation in range (253 down to 239).

Of course it helps that I'm still on V8.1:D
similar for me and as confirmed by dragy but I have all the updates.
 
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Splsales

Member
Jul 25, 2018
98
89
Atlanta
400 miles would make my drives so much better. On my Florida-Wisconsin treks I could avoid the downtown Atlanta underground parking lot and the Chattanooga airport superchargers. Heading up the east coast I could skip Savannah airport. If I didn't have to make these long drives I'd spend $20,000 for the P even though I'd probably use it only 5 or 6 times a year just to show my younger friends how cool it is. I rarely floor my 90D now. Don't really have the need.

Right now charging from 200 miles to 280 miles is like watching paint dry. I'd love to be able to charge quickly to 300 miles. And eliminate 2 or 3 supercharger stops.

Supercharging after chargegate really is painful.

Yes I do have the + one of the few p85d’s out there.

don’t get me wrong. The ravens air suspension is fantastic it’s the performance aspects that the LR didn’t have (again it didn’t have perf tires on so that might make it a little better)

when we bought our first p85 we went around and around. Perf or not perf. We went Perf and never looked back. When we bought used last year we went perf again because while we do a lot of highway cruising it’s also nice to have a good ok spirited time.

fwiw if I were going to buy NEW today I’d go LR just because of the extra range. It wouldn’t be as much fun as my perf is now...but...I can also go farther and charge faster.

im sorry about your battery. My car at 100% soc is 241 miles. 2 miles less than a year ago when I got the car. It’s also now at 62k on the odo so..I’ll take that. In real world this time of year I can go 201 miles from 100% to 1% and that’s mostly freeway driving. I lose 6% to drive 6 miles to get home because it’s a continual climb. 200’ elevation to 2100’ elevation. If I don’t have that issue i think I could likely get 220 actual driven miles. Can I ask wheh you only got 153 did you have AP engaged? For whatever reason for me I seem to do about 10% better when AP is doing the driving.

So the break down of the 153 miles.
50 miles highway about 80-85mph. (this is my normal highway cruising speed)
50 miles spirited run through the mountains.
50 miles highway about 55-60mph due to estimated battery to reach charger.

No AP on this trip but usually I do have AP engaged on the highway and consumption is typically in the 350kWh range. The 2nd and 3rd 50 miles legs probably cancel each other out. In real world driving maybe wouldve got about 10 more miles on the same 98-2% charge. But then again we know we are not to charge past 90% or below 10%. So even if i was getting real world 160.....90-10% would equal 130 miles.

My daily commute is 120 miles....but Tesla was gracious enough to install 6 destination chargers at my business for free customer use. This benefits me greatly!

But your statement in reference to suspension is a bit concerning. I have acquired a new hobby....mountain runs. The p85d did great in all aspects, speed and corners....on 245 Michelin Primacy MXM4 with 30k miles! Stayed with a C7 Corvette. Not too shabby! we had a pack of about 15 cars....they were very impressed with the stock Tesla suspension. The raven I know will be great for highway but Id hate to give up anything on the spirited driving front.

Also, the performance drops considerably with the SoC. With a charge at 90% or higher, my P85DL will put out over 500hp as indicated by SMT, but at 20% SoC, it's below 400. A newer car with a bigger pack will have a higher SoC for longer, and may perform similarly to an older performance car for more of its charge cycle.

I have a 2014 P85DL with 90k on the clock and recently got a Dragy to do some test runs. Consistently did 0-60 in 3.2/3.1 with out roll out. With roll out was about 2.9. 1/4 mile was 11.6, which was actually better than my drag strip time of 11.7. I am going to realist again with better tires(I have all season Goodyear’s right now). I think the Raven will feel much slower than the P you currently drive...

This sounds promising. I am happy with my 0-60 times for sure and dont think Ive lost much there. Even if I am down to 3.5-3.6 that is still respectable. Although when I purchased at 30k the 0-60 used to give me butterflies....LITERALLY! I have obviously gotten used to that now and require more for said butterflies....lol. Keep in mind I did come from a 2005 LS430 though.

I will get some runs in hopefully this weekend with a higher SOC and better weather and start a new thread to not hijack this one

Hijack away! We are all itching to hear your numbers! Keep us updated please.

I'd find it hard to believe with those numbers that your performance hasn't degraded as well. I think you might be happy with a LR Raven's performance, especially if your concern is passing power and not outright 0-60. I know you'll be happy with the range ;)

I have wet dreams in the middle of the night thinking about 400 miles range. Of course once I get it Ill want 500....Im only human right. We need something to complain about!

Last 2/3rds of those miles was at a very low 200 Wh/mi. Total average of 337 Wh/mi.

I’m guessing there’s quite a bit of vampire drain at play here.


My P85D definitely has significant vampire drain. Particularly if left out in the heat for a long time.

0 vampire drain....quoted from above....
50 miles highway about 80-85mph. (this is my normal highway cruising speed)
50 miles spirited run through the mountains.
50 miles highway about 55-60mph due to estimated battery to reach charger.
 

RAW84

Member
Oct 6, 2014
619
327
Boston
0 vampire drain....quoted from above....
50 miles highway about 80-85mph. (this is my normal highway cruising speed)
50 miles spirited run through the mountains.
50 miles highway about 55-60mph due to estimated battery to reach charger.

The trips being broken into those increments doesn’t mean there’s no vampire drain.

what was your rated miles at 98%?
Edit: I see that’s the 205 miles you mention in the OP. Ya, that’s quite a bit of degradation. 99% is 240 on my 2014 P85D
 

Splsales

Member
Jul 25, 2018
98
89
Atlanta
The trips being broken into those increments doesn’t mean there’s no vampire drain.

what was your rated miles at 98%?
Edit: I see that’s the 205 miles you mention in the OP. Ya, that’s quite a bit of degradation. 99% is 240 on my 2014 P85D

Maybe I dont know what vampire drain actually means. That whole 150 miles was done with maybe 3 five minute stops.
I was under the impression vampire drain occurs while the car is parked/not in use. I thought vampire drain is caused by the computers/ac/cameras working while the vehicle is not being driven?
 

RAW84

Member
Oct 6, 2014
619
327
Boston
Maybe I dont know what vampire drain actually means. That whole 150 miles was done with maybe 3 five minute stops.
I was under the impression vampire drain occurs while the car is parked/not in use. I thought vampire drain is caused by the computers/ac/cameras working while the vehicle is not being driven?


Yes that’s pretty much what vampire drain is. Here’s why I say there’s gotta be more at play here:

I recently went on a road trip from Boston to Atlanta. I left my house with 99% (240 rated mi) and reached the first supercharger with 8% (18 rated mi). I traveled 180.3 miles and used 222 rated miles, so 81%, with an average use of 352 Wh/mi

E004-F057-994-C-4783-9965-44762-CAFD195.jpg


You went from 98% (205 mi) to 2% (I’m going to estimate at 5 miles, rounding up to be conservative). You traveled 153.6 miles while using 200 rated miles, so 77% at 337 Wh/mi. It makes no sense for you to have traveled more efficiently from a Wh/mi perspective yet less efficiently from a real/rated miles perspective.

So that’s why I was guessing vampire drain when I saw it was not a singular trip from 98% to 2%. Could also be a balancing issue; the battery was wrong about how much energy it really had. Or maybe our P85D batteries are really that different. Do you know what Wh/mi you need to hit for real miles to equal rated miles (where projected range equals rated range)? For me it’s about 308 Wh/mi.
 

Splsales

Member
Jul 25, 2018
98
89
Atlanta
You went from 98% (205 mi) to 2% (I’m going to estimate at 5 miles, rounding up to be conservative). You traveled 153.6 miles while using 200 rated miles, so 77% at 337 Wh/mi. It makes no sense for you to have traveled more efficiently from a Wh/mi perspective yet less efficiently from a real/rated miles perspective.

So that’s why I was guessing vampire drain when I saw it was not a singular trip from 98% to 2%. Could also be a balancing issue; the battery was wrong about how much energy it really had. Or maybe our P85D batteries are really that different. Do you know what Wh/mi you need to hit for real miles to equal rated miles (where projected range equals rated range)? For me it’s about 308 Wh/mi.

Hmm. I honestly dont know what my wh/mi needs to be reach rated miles but 308 sounds about right.
I think the reason the numbers are being skewed is due to the SPIRITED mountain run. This was not a scenic drive at all.
Is there a way to calculate the wh/mi to reach rated miles?
I will do a 50 mile trip this evening to work....Ill post numbers from my trip this evening.
Although I know my battery is toast, of course according to Tesla my battery is not out of balance but just shot due to "normal degradation." (only the Tesla Gods know how that is defined apparently)
 

Splsales

Member
Jul 25, 2018
98
89
Atlanta
That's good. Not all all 85s are effected by battery gate from an SOC/max power standpoint....although I think all of them have had their supercharging taper lowered

Its nice to hear that I am not in a majority as far as battery degradation.
Makes it a little easier to throw cash at Tesla.
Curious though, has your supercharging been effected?
 

Splsales

Member
Jul 25, 2018
98
89
Atlanta
@RAW84

Also is my calculating is correct you have ~70kwh battery....I am at 54kwh. Thats a 23% hit!! :eek: (not even taking into account that you've taken a 6% degradation hit)
 

Alysashley79

Active Member
Oct 4, 2013
1,226
536
Seattle(ish) WA
205 rated miles? That’s ridiculous. That feels way more like a 75 than an 85 pack.

I run Michelin pilot sport a/s 3+. My average spirited driving is around 320 and I feel like they grip the road insanely well. I pulled a 3.0 0-60 with them before the virus hit. I had the primaries on my old Tesla (p85) and this one came with the pilot sports. They feel better.

also I’d give my left arm to be able to drive 80-85mph on the freeway. In the Seattle area it’s 60 and top at 70. That could be the extra drain 15mph makes a huge difference.
 

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