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P85D vs. P85 Efficiency Testing, Take 2

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I haven't really seen an improvement with .139 either. I don't have .140 yet. So I'm living vicariously through you, and probably hoping you see an improvement about as much as you do!

Ditto. I did some more short, unscientific trips this evening and I'm still averaging 405-410 Wh/mi like my lifetime average. I'm on .139 still; haven't been pushed .140 yet.
 
I can't say for sure I understand why others aren't seeing an efficiency boost. Do keep in mind that the torque sleep stuff seems to be less effective in stop/go situations. At a constant speed, though, even a low speed, it seems to work wonderfully.

I think it would be worth suggedting that steady speed itself wouldn't be the issue, it would be the ability to stay within a particular power range. Rather like an automatic being able to avoid unlocking the torque converter. So significa t acceleration or maintaining speed on steep hills could wake up the rear motor.
 
I think it would be worth suggedting that steady speed itself wouldn't be the issue, it would be the ability to stay within a particular power range. Rather like an automatic being able to avoid unlocking the torque converter. So significa t acceleration or maintaining speed on steep hills could wake up the rear motor.

Looking at power usage in my side by side video (that is now rendering) power usage of the P85 and P85D going up hills is nearly identical now, where before the P85D was using a bit more power consistently.

Unfortunately GPU acceleration in Adobe Premiere seems broken... no idea why. So, rendering on CPU is going to take something like 14 hours. Doh.
 
So, the impatient part of me uploaded a 2-minute preview of my latest video.

Hopefully the full thing will be done rendering tomorrow. :)


Edit: Replaced preview with full video

(Yes, I censored the park assist disabled message on my dash...)
 
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No, I used the same settings as the previous run, which was sport + range mode.

Range mode on both cars or just the D ? I would love to see the same tests with the D in insane and normal mode.

- - - Updated - - -

Fantastic video wk057. However I see in the beginning pretty much what my consumption experience is. The D is WAY worse than the P. It seems only on the highway the torque sleep pays off. I reset the trip meter since 0139 and are now at 402 wh/mile vs 433 before. My P was at 351 all time consumption. So this is still about 15 % more than my old P ! I do want to see a Tesla employee driving my D and get the promised range in the city, it is impossible !
 
So, the impatient part of me uploaded a 2-minute preview of my latest video.

Hopefully the full thing will be done rendering tomorrow. :)


(Yes, I censored the park assist disabled message on my dash...)


Very cool Wk. Even more, it's great to see what you've confirmed - that we're not taking a significant penalty for having the big D.

Kudos to Tesla for delivering on promise. But seriously... the communications still leaves much to be desired.
 
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Range mode on both cars or just the D ? I would love to see the same tests with the D in insane and normal mode.

- - - Updated - - -

Fantastic video wk057. However I see in the beginning pretty much what my consumption experience is. The D is WAY worse than the P. It seems only on the highway the torque sleep pays off. I reset the trip meter since 0139 and are now at 402 wh/mile vs 433 before. My P was at 351 all time consumption. So this is still about 15 % more than my old P ! I do want to see a Tesla employee driving my D and get the promised range in the city, it is impossible !

Yesterday under .139 I did a short round trip on city streets and a longer loop on the highway in my P85D. Temps were in the mid-50s (warmer than it's been by about 20°), but the efficiency improvements are so striking it's remarkable: the 11.1-mile city out-and-return came in at 278 Wh/mi and the 93-mile highway loop (much of it at 75+ mph) came in at 280 Wh/mi. Both were driven in Sport/RangeOn modes. Not scientific, I know, but nevertheless I'm convinced: Tesla has delivered the promised efficiency gains.

But I am sorely puzzled by those of you who aren't seeing any measurable improvement: I don't doubt your experiences are real, I just don't have an explanation for it, and that bothers me.
 
Range mode on both cars or just the D ? I would love to see the same tests with the D in insane and normal mode.

- - - Updated - - -

Fantastic video wk057. However I see in the beginning pretty much what my consumption experience is. The D is WAY worse than the P. It seems only on the highway the torque sleep pays off. I reset the trip meter since 0139 and are now at 402 wh/mile vs 433 before. My P was at 351 all time consumption. So this is still about 15 % more than my old P ! I do want to see a Tesla employee driving my D and get the promised range in the city, it is impossible !

The P85D is supposed to be slightly less efficient in city driving vs the (P)85. This was expected, but those numbers did certainly improve. The initial spike of energy is pretty normal since the average takes all kinds of things into account at first.

If you look at the final time I reset Trip B in the full video (uploading now), which was after we got off of the interstate, the P85D and P85 are only 2 Wh/mi apart... so I definitely wouldn't say "WAY worse." I'm actually seeing numbers better than Tesla predicted.
 
But I am sorely puzzled by those of you who aren't seeing any measurable improvement: I don't doubt your experiences are real, I just don't have an explanation for it, and that bothers me.

Thanks for the update stevezzzz.

I'm anxious to get some more testing under way this weekend - I have seen "one off" trips before wherein I have used unusually high or low amounts of energy without an obvious explanation. I hope my initial 120 mile test immediately after installing .140 on my P85D falls into that case.

If not it will be time to get Tesla involved to figure out what's going on.

Mike
 
I played with torque sleep this morning on my way to drop my daughter off at school.

The best way I can describe the original feel of my D was that it was "on the pipe" or immediately there on the throttle in almost a twitchy fashion. I can now feel the transition from twitchy to mellow or almost lethargic and can see a noticeable drop in power consumption with this transition. I can also delay or even stop this transition by gently modulating the throttle at the end of a normal acceleration to steady state speed. All of this was done at speeds less than 50 mph or what could be considered city. This leads me to believe that throttle actuation has a lot to do with if and how the torque sleep transition is made.

All the above was done in normal mode (not range) and insane acceleration mode. I've not changed any of these modes as all my experience to date have been with this configuration.

I am now very happy with my D's performance both city and highway. I just wish I knew how to get others the exact same experience.
 
I played with torque sleep this morning on my way to drop my daughter off at school.

The best way I can describe the original feel of my D was that it was "on the pipe" or immediately there on the throttle in almost a twitchy fashion. I can now feel the transition from twitchy to mellow or almost lethargic and can see a noticeable drop in power consumption with this transition. I can also delay or even stop this transition by gently modulating the throttle at the end of a normal acceleration to steady state speed. All of this was done at speeds less than 50 mph or what could be considered city. This leads me to believe that throttle actuation has a lot to do with if and how the torque sleep transition is made.

All the above was done in normal mode (not range) and insane acceleration mode. I've not changed any of these modes as all my experience to date have been with this configuration.

I am now very happy with my D's performance both city and highway. I just wish I knew how to get others the exact same experience.

This is an excellent description @lolachampcar. I can clearly imagine what my car should be doing. It's very strange that I'm not experiencing this and I've turned the music off and tried to pay close attention. I also have not changed my modes; I use normal (not range) and insane.

I'm sure you've mentioned this already, but are you on .139 or .140? I am on .139.

Regards, Ben
 
Ben,
I first saw the improvement with the installation of .139 but also got the dreaded parking sensors disabled message. The Service Center updated the car to .140 last night and I was able to reproduce my results from .139 this morning running .140. The only difference I THOUGHT I could tell was a little less herky jerky in the transition into torque sleep mode but more time it needed to confirm that (as in, it may have been my imagination).
 
I have another datapoint for consideration. On the instrument cluster, there is a major hashmark for 30kW, 60kW, etc., but there are also two minor hashmarks just below each major hashmark. Driving with constant power output at the first small hashmark under 30kW in insane mode with range mode off and HVAC off with outside temp of 55 degrees, I was able to maintain a 75mph cruising speed. I believe this first small hashmark represents 20kW. This is with firmware .140. I don't remember exactly, but it seemed that with .113 I had to be at or above 30kW to achieve 75mph cruising speed.
 
Reading these posts on the .139 and .140 efficiency and discrepancies amongst P85D drivers. One thing I have learned with the two Hybrids that we have had in our stable is that driving style has a lot to do with efficiency outcome. My wife drives her Prius IV like a normal car, foot fully on the accelerator pretty much at all times other than when breaking. Her MPG is usually low 40's. I, on the other hand, when I drive her Prius drive it differently... I give near full throttle to get to the speed desired, then take my foot off of the accelerator and then just feather the accelerator as if an egg were between my foot and the pedal. What happens then is the car coasts and goes into EV mode to maintain speed. My milage on that same car tends to be in the high 40's to mid 50's using this technique of pedal modulation. I suspect that the S Torque Sleep would react positively to my style of driving.

What does this have to do with the Tesla S you ask? Well first off, driving styles will have a effect on outcome. Also with about 100K miles of hybrid use, I noticed that uphill trips result in lower efficiency. Flat runs and downhill runs in higher efficiency IF (Big IF) your driving style matches well with the control gear of the auto. Now, many of you are using TACC in the tests which should mitigate variances. The trial course you choose may not be conducive to torque sleep. Cant help that really. Your terrain is yours, not much you can do about it.

One other comment on the test results... on posts I think it will be beneficial to all if testers would define their parameters and setting at the front of the post.

For Example:

Sport Mode, Range On, TACC Used, external and internal temps and settings, wheels, wind speed if known and overall trip elevation change +/-

These data setting and parameters my help others in their testing.

Lastly, I am glad to hear that LOLACHAMPCAR has actually felt the Torque Sleep Hunting or modulation in his testing. This is actually good to hear that some drivers are so well attuned to the P95D dynamics as to be able to know when the car is TS'ing. I was amazed that so many of you were not reporting a single tell that TS was actually happening via lack of feedback from the power trains.

I suspect a Torque Sleep Indicator is needed or probably coming... hint hint

Keep Up the Great Work Guys and Gals!

PS: just wish I had a P85D to do tests with, I have a test course in mind... I would run that course at 40, 50, 60 and 65 to show TS characterization based on speed.

PPS: Does the P85D have a trip computer that shows Average Speed in MPH? I never saw that mentioned?
 
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