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P85D wheel setup

I also take issue with the "no real benefit". More tire in the back means more traction for acceleration and braking. You also get better handling. This is why so many track cars run a staggered setup and why it comes stock from Tesla that way. I doubt they simply do it for looks since it likely decreases range.
 

HankLloydRight

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Jan 18, 2014
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I also take issue with the "no real benefit". More tire in the back means more traction for acceleration and braking. You also get better handling. This is why so many track cars run a staggered setup and why it comes stock from Tesla that way. I doubt they simply do it for looks since it likely decreases range.

Without getting into it again (grab a beverage and see: Dark Grey Turbines) I'd just say do some research on the subject.

If you dig deep, most track cars actually run a square setup so there's equal traction front to rear, so the fronts don't break free earlier than the rears. Staggered setups also don't provide increased forward traction, but rather slight increased lateral traction at the extreme ends of adhesion.

I stand behind my "no real benefit" statement.
 
Without getting into it again (grab a beverage and see: Dark Grey Turbines) I'd just say do some research on the subject.

If you dig deep, most track cars actually run a square setup so there's equal traction front to rear, so the fronts don't break free earlier than the rears. Staggered setups also don't provide increased forward traction, but rather slight increased lateral traction at the extreme ends of adhesion.

I stand behind my "no real benefit" statement.

I've done plenty of research, both reading and actual experience. I have run square and staggered setups and regularly visit the track. My current track car is running a staggered setup (2010 ZR1, both in diameter and width).

Normally, on an AWD car I would prefer square. Especially one which doesn't have significantly more weight over the rear wheels, or sends more torque to rear. Tesla doesn't fit any of that. Yet, Tesla decided to sell the car with a staggered 21" setup with all the limitations which you mentioned (limited tire selection, lack of rotation and limited tire life) but you also failed to mention one important one and that is reduced range in a EV for the larger tires in the rear.

You think Tesla would do all this for zero gain? No one in their right mind would think a Telsa, even a P100D is going to be a track car. I'm not trying to be argumentative or even really think a staggered setup is the ideal solution, but rather simply question the statement that there is zero benefit to a staggered setup.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
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Jan 18, 2014
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You think Tesla would do all this for zero gain?

Zero performance gain, yes, they would.

There are other gains I mentioned, mainly bragging rights and ego. That's why they did it. It sounds sexy and makes people feel like they have something special other people don't. It's called marketing.

edit: staggered setup in diameter is a completely different conversation that does not apply to anything I'm talking about. That kind of setup does have specific and measurable differences in performance/handling on the track and off.
 
Zero performance gain, yes, they would.

There are other gains I mentioned, mainly bragging rights and ego. That's why they did it. It sounds sexy and makes people feel like they have something special other people don't. It's called marketing.
We've had very different experiences then. While I've heard people bragging about ridiculous things like the diameter of their wheels, I don't think I ever remember someone bragging about a staggered setup. :)
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
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Jan 18, 2014
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I don't think I ever remember someone bragging about a staggered setup.

I touched on it on the other thread.. I can't count the times, right here on TMC, where people have said their P85+ or P85Ds with the 21" staggered rims have "an aggressive, sporty stance that makes the Model S look awesome." (or similar sentiments).

And to put some scope around it, I'm mainly talking about the 245s vs 265s on Model S, which as I've demonstrated, only provide 4% more contact patch area. Not only have I run both staggered and square setups on my P85+ on the same day, but I can't believe anyone would be able to detect or measure a 4% performance difference in contact patch area in a Model S.

Now as mentioned in the other thread, if you're running super wide tires on the rear with a much bigger width delta, and on a track, and in a car built for such a setup (like a supercar), and at the extremes of adhesion, you might be able to detect a difference. I'm also not convinced that even in those conditions, any Model S suspension would be able to transfer that 4% difference to the driver.

Also, if you look back in the Tesla archives, they originally marketed the P85+ with a staggered setup to have a 3% increase in range. That claim was silently withdrawn sometime in 2013/2014. So I think that demonstrates that even Tesla doesn't understand what performance gains staggered rims provide (i.e. none) if they think they also increase range, as you pointed out, they do the opposite.

It's all marketing.
 

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