P85D With Square Wheels

[trayloader]

Umm..what? Care to elaborate? There were more P85Ds sold with square setups and 19" wheels than were sold with staggered wheels.

The difference between staggered and non-staggered is marginal, and that's being generous.

Hi Hank,

yes I will elaborate (sorry about the grammar/spelling-non native speaker).
On a square setup You are running the 245 wheels on the real axle on the absolute limit with this combo.
Load and torque wise.
That is why Tesla handed out this official document attached.Please read carefully, especially Page 2 (which equals part of P.1).
There might have been cases where Tesla officially delivered square setups on P...Ds, but I heavily doubt it, especially concerning liability towards the insurance companies (or it was pioneer days).
This is why S60/70/75/S85,and all RWDs (and P86D, P90D with metal roof) CAN have square, because they sport the 1420KG in their papers and their official plaque on the lower A-pillar. But that´s about it. All dual wheel drives form 205 onwards mostly have between 1450KG-1500KG officially labeled.

I am happy if we find official P85D/P90D (with Pano/glass roof) papers and deliveries stating the opposite, since we are developing aerowheels ATM and went through all this paperwork to the excess.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Is that normal @HankLloydRight ? A non-P with a staggered setup?

I had never seen that before, but with Tesla, anything is possible.

There might have been cases where Tesla officially delivered square setups on P...Ds, but I heavily doubt it,

You can doubt it, but it's true... both in the US and Europe. See the data below. Out of 429 P85D CPOs sold in Europe, 112 of them were sold NEW with 19" rims.

 

[trayloader]

Yes You are correct.
And I was not properly detailed in my last answer.
19" square is of course ALWAYS possible, even with P...Ds, since the load is allowed.

21" is when it get´s tricky.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I can assure you that for years after the P85D, Tesla sold lots and lots of dual-motor cars with sunroof with a 21" square Turbines.

I'll admit I don't know every car sold, but I never heard of 21" staggered rims as required equipment for all dual-motor cars with a sunroof. I think that would have shocked thousands of buyers when they found out they received staggered rims and the extremely limited tire selection and in-ability to rotate. That would have not gone unnoticed here.

 

[trayloader]

True. You´re the expert when it comes to statistics. But why does the official paper exist then?
What is Your opinion on that?

 

[HankLloydRight]

The other thing that comes to mind is that Tesla sold on their own website a 21" Sotozero wheel and tire package that was a square setup.. no requirements about not being a valid fitment for dual-motor cars with a sunroof.

In fact I bought my own P85D (used) from the original buyer who had both the staggered silver 21" turbines with summer tires, and the 21" square grey turbines with the Sotozeros for winter (which I later fitted with Hankook Ventus V12s summer tires and bought proper 19" rims/tires for winter).

True. You´re the expert when it comes to statistics. But why does the official paper exist then?
What is Your opinion on that?

That I could not tell you. But Tesla has definitely sold cars outside of those specs (at least in the US anyway).

 

[trayloader]

....

In fact I bought my own P85D (used) from the original buyer who had both the staggered silver 21" turbines with summer tires, and the 21" square grey turbines with the Sotozeros for winter (which I later fitted with Hankook Ventus V12s summer tires and bought proper 19" rims/tires for winter).
...

Sure. But that is exactly what the list says.
M+S winter were never a problem. Referring to the list again:

 

[HankLloydRight]

So it's now only about which tires are mounted on the 245s.

All else being equal, you're saying a any dual motor car, with sunroof, with 21" square rims ,with M+S tires is allowable, but any other tire is not? That seems like an extremely fine line for even Tesla to navigate, much less ordinary owners who would never know that (and hasn't, until now).

You originally said:

21" un-staggered one the P85D is not allowed due to rear axle load limits.

But more accurately, you are claiming: 21" un-staggered rims on any dual-motor Model S, with a sunroof is not allowed, except for properly rated M+S tires where a 21" square setup is allowed.

 

[trayloader]

That´s the German mentality ;P

Well that is what this list says. At least in Europe. Seriously don´t the insurances hold the balance on this one? The acrobatics Tesla do here seem to have a reason. Signature et al..

1420 KG on the rear axle, 21" summer tires, no matter the brand (see page 2) are the requirement.
Everything else above: STAGGERED

Attached one from a 85D:

 

[HankLloydRight]

The only thing I can imagine is that that document was produced in 2016. I just checked the load rating of all 245/35/21 summer tires, and they're all XL 1,561kg. Perhaps in 2016 they had lower load ratings.

 

[trayloader]

Nope.

At lest in Europe they (245/35 R21) ALL have a max. load of 710KG/wheel
Which means consequently 1420KG for the whole axis. So the heavier MS versions are not possible

 

[HankLloydRight]

Sorry, the load index I was looking at was 1,561 pounds, not kg.

 

[HankLloydRight]

So is 1,410kg max load rate a car fully loaded with people and cargo (gross weight), or curb weight?

 

[commasign]

More proof:

Some P85Ds being delivered with non-staggered wheels

 

[Rogue Synapse]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m trying to take my P85D+ to a square setup. Mine came from the factory with (obviously square) 19” cyclones (further proving that P85D+ did come with 19s, as stated earlier in the thread). I use the 19s for winter and bought a set of staggered 21” Arachnids for summer driving. I’ve actually started doing some autocrossing on my whale of a Model S, and the staggered tires make this boat understeer even worse.

I want to take the staggered Arachnids and swap out two of them for a square setup. I’ll have to buy two (e.g. on eBay Motors) and sell two. Has anyone run square 21x9 (with 265/35 R21 tires), and have you come into issues with rubbing in the front or undesirable handling? I know that 21 have only been offered in square 21x8.5, but it seems that keeping the fatter 9in wheels in the front would be grippier.

 

[pabla]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I’m trying to take my P85D+ to a square setup. Mine came from the factory with (obviously square) 19” cyclones (further proving that P85D+ did come with 19s, as stated earlier in the thread). I use the 19s for winter and bought a set of staggered 21” Arachnids for summer driving. I’ve actually started doing some autocrossing on my whale of a Model S, and the staggered tires make this boat understeer even worse.

I want to take the staggered Arachnids and swap out two of them for a square setup. I’ll have to buy two (e.g. on eBay Motors) and sell two. Has anyone run square 21x9 (with 265/35 R21 tires), and have you come into issues with rubbing in the front or undesirable handling? I know that 21 have only been offered in square 21x8.5, but it seems that keeping the fatter 9in wheels in the front would be grippier.

A 265 front tire will rub. Even a 255 will rub too, the widest you can go on the front is a 245. It may be possible to fit a 265 front tire with a custom rim but I still think you would get rubbing

 

[dark cloud]

A 265 front tire will rub. Even a 255 will rub too, the widest you can go on the front is a 245. It may be possible to fit a 265 front tire with a custom rim but I still think you would get rubbing

Heck, my 245’s rub ( going in reverse)

Beautiful car @Rogue Synapse ; looks exactly like mine

 

[pabla]

Heck, my 245’s rub ( going in reverse)

Beautiful car @Rogue Synapse ; looks exactly like mine

Are you completely stock? If so a alignment should fix the rubbing

 

[dark cloud]

Are you completely stock? If so a alignment should fix the rubbing

Yes stock; cyclone wheels as well. She’s going in for alignment in a few weeks as it’s been a few years and I just put new tires on, but it rubbed a wee bit not long after the last alignment anyway. Not a big deal, just warmed up the fender and bent it in a little. Hopefully none of the links are worn out.

 

[BrokerDon]

Our March 2015 built P85D+ came directly from Tesla with square 21” turbines and Continental ContiSportContact tires. I ran these for 3 years.

I then sold the square 21" Turbines when I bought a set of new lighter & stronger staggered 21" Arachnids with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires from another TMC member. Both the Turbines and Arachnids ran fine but IMHO the staggered 21" Arachnids + Michelin PSS handle better.

I also have a set of square 19" Cyclones with Michelin MXM4 All Season tires I run in SoCal "winter" rains and out of state road trips. They also run fine, last longer, and work great in rain & snow... but definitely don't handle like the staggered 21" Arachnids in our normally dry, warm SoCal weather... and we have very few potholes.