P90D Ludicrous 1/4 mile time

[wk057]

You can call BS all you like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time

The E92 is 80 ms. That's 0.08 seconds. It's faster than the blink of an eye.
The E60 is 250 ms. That 0.25 seconds. Slower than the M3 and only in about the blink of an eye.

From my perspective, the M3 had no delay. You press the pedal and in auto mode down shift occurs with no delay at all.

Fail. You didn't provide a reference to compare to the blink of an eye.

How Long Is A Astronomically? | William M. Briggs

"A real blink of an eye takes 300 to 400 milliseconds."

Blink and you miss it!

"a blink lasts on average 100-150 milliseconds"

High-speed camera characterization of voluntary eye blinking kinematics | Journal of The Royal Society Interface

"Our video analysis showed that one voluntary blink took 572 ± 25 ms"

 

[DoctorJJ]

You can call BS all you like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_time

The E92 is 80 ms. That's 0.08 seconds. It's faster than the blink of an eye.
The E60 is 250 ms. That 0.25 seconds. Slower than the M3 and only in about the blink of an eye.

From my perspective, the M3 had no delay. You press the pedal and in auto mode down shift occurs with no delay at all.

Honestly, I question whether you realize how an ICE works if you think an ICE powered car can produce power as quickly as an electric motor.

 

[AndreyATC]

I had Ms and the last car was S6 with V8TT and dual clutch box
There is no way in the world any of those cars can get going the way Tesla is teleporting in space
The moment you punch it, it's there, yards away
ICE has to react to pedal input to determine gear change and rev the engine before it even starts changing speed
Unless you are in-gear and 4K+ RPM, you're going to see Tesla's butt
Yes. these new transmissions shift in milliseconds, but only when they go in the right sequence
From 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, etc
Some of them even go backwards at the same speed
However, if you're cruising in 7th and punch it, it has to drop all the way to 3rd and for that it needs much more than a few milliseconds

In practice, you need to "time" your maneuver with ICE car, with Tesla you dont
It's almost telepathic

 

[DoctorJJ]

I had Ms and the last car was S6 with V8TT and dual clutch box
There is no way in the world any of those cars can get going the way Tesla is teleporting in space
The moment you punch it, it's there, yards away
ICE has to react to pedal input to determine gear change and rev the engine before it even starts changing speed
Unless you are in-gear and 4K+ RPM, you're going to see Tesla's butt
Yes. these new transmissions shift in milliseconds, but only when they go in the right sequence
From 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, etc
Some of them even go backwards at the same speed
However, if you're cruising in 7th and punch it, it has to drop all the way to 3rd and for that it needs much more than a few milliseconds

In practice, you need to "time" your maneuver with ICE car, with Tesla you dont
It's almost telepathic

Thank you!

 

[sorka]

Honestly, I question whether you realize how an ICE works if you think an ICE powered car can produce power as quickly as an electric motor.

I do, so you don't.

You've clearly never driven really fast cars and the M3 and M5 aren't anywhere near super car territory.

In my experience the performance sedans in the category I've mentioned have beat me to the hole even when I was the one to initiate the jump.

The P85D accelerates about as fast as a 5000 lb car making 480 to 555 hp (depending on SOC) and the 100 ms advantage it gets over the ICE that has to signal the ECU to open up the throttle body, downshift, and add fuel in response more mass flowing through the MAF may give it a momentary jump but the car that has the superior power to weight ratio is going take over very quickly.

Turbo lag is a far bigger factor than anything mentioned above but even a test drive in the RS7 has practically no lag compared to the 300ZX Twin Turbo I owned in the 90's.

- - - Updated - - -

I had Ms and the last car was S6 with V8TT and dual clutch box
There is no way in the world any of those cars can get going the way Tesla is teleporting in space
The moment you punch it, it's there, yards away
ICE has to react to pedal input to determine gear change and rev the engine before it even starts changing speed
Unless you are in-gear and 4K+ RPM, you're going to see Tesla's butt
Yes. these new transmissions shift in milliseconds, but only when they go in the right sequence
From 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, etc
Some of them even go backwards at the same speed
However, if you're cruising in 7th and punch it, it has to drop all the way to 3rd and for that it needs much more than a few milliseconds

In practice, you need to "time" your maneuver with ICE car, with Tesla you dont
It's almost telepathic

I drove the RS7 before I bought my P85D and there's no way the P85D would get any more than a jump before being overtaken. Period. You're entitled to your opinion but exactly which cars are you basing it on?

The S6 weighs almost what the P85D does and has way less power. It will never keep up with a P85D under any circumstances.
Your X6M makes the same power as the P85D but weighs a lot more. It will never keep up with a P85D under any circumstances.
You 335i ....well we don't need to compare that one

 

[DoctorJJ]

I do, so you don't.

You've clearly never driven really fast cars and the M3 and M5 aren't anywhere near super car territory.

In my experience the performance sedans in the category I've mentioned have beat me to the hole even when I was the one to initiate the jump.

The P85D accelerates about as fast as a 5000 lb car making 480 to 555 hp (depending on SOC) and the 100 ms advantage it gets over the ICE that has to signal the ECU to open up the throttle body, downshift, and add fuel in response more mass flowing through the MAF may give it a momentary jump but the car that has the superior power to weight ratio is going take over very quickly.

Turbo lag is a far bigger factor than anything mentioned above but even a test drive in the RS7 has practically no lag compared to the 300ZX Twin Turbo I owned in the 90's.

Wrong on many levels. Do I need to take pictures of my current Porsche Turbo? Would you like to see video of a dyno pull of my 750 RWHP (approx 1000 hp at the crank) truck that would run mid 10's? Or maybe you need me to list off the, literally close to 100, super fast and exotic cars I have driven.

Here's a video of a P85D getting the jump on all kinds of cars and even sport bikes from a roll.
Tesla P85D Roll Racing vs Evo Mustang STI Regal Cruising in Hickory - YouTube

M3 that you mentioned has 30-70 of 3.7. P85D is 30-70 of 2.8.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Burt, I forgot to ask, but are you doing the preconditioning or Max Battery thing for these last few videos?

I recall you and Pete chiming in a few days ago, and indicating that it didn't seem to make much difference, and that got me thinking. Why did they put it in there? There has to be a reason or a use for it.

My battery has been preconditioned to "Ready!" for all of my runs.

 

[sorka]

Here's a video of a P85D getting the jump on all kinds of cars and even sport bikes from a roll.
Tesla P85D Roll Racing vs Evo Mustang STI Regal Cruising in Hickory - YouTube.

You've completely missed the point. I'm thrilled with my P85D's off the line performance. Almost nothing beats it. If I were driving around on expressways all day long I'd have no complaint.

It's highway passing speed that is the issue and it's not very good. It's about as good as a 5000 lb car with 480 to 550 hp should be.

The video you linked shows the P85D beating all kinds of much slower cars. The only cars of note were the ones that it beat from a stop or from a 5 MPH roll which is the P85D's strong point.

 

[DoctorJJ]

You've completely missed the point. I'm thrilled with my P85D's off the line performance. Almost nothing beats it. If I were driving around on expressways all day long I'd have no complaint.

It's highway passing speed that is the issue and it's not very good. It's about as good as a 5000 lb car with 480 to 550 hp should be.

The video you linked shows the P85D beating all kinds of much slower cars. The only cars of note were the ones that it beat from a stop or from a 5 MPH roll which is the P85D's strong point.

It's not very good at highway passing speeds? This is laughable. It may not be as good as a M5 or E63 AMG, but you act like once it hits 70 it turns into a Yugo. You realize that from 60-90, it's on par or very close with those cars. It's only the 90-120 where those cars reel in the Tesla. Personally I don't do a lot of passing at 90+.

 

[sorka]

It's not very good at highway passing speeds? This is laughable. It may not be as good as a M5 or E63 AMG, but you act like once it hits 70 it turns into a Yugo. You realize that from 60-90, it's on par or very close with those cars. It's only the 90-120 where those cars reel in the Tesla. Personally I don't do a lot of passing at 90+.

Laughable was my first response too.

First, if it actually had 691 hp then it would faster from 60-90 than those cars, not on par. I disagree that the P85D is on par with the current M5, previous M5, current M3, or previous M3, or the current RS7 from 60-90.

I think the P90DL is about on par with those but again, the P85D should have been faster than all of them from 60-90.

 

[DoctorJJ]

Laughable was my first response too.

First, if it actually had 691 hp then it would faster from 60-90 than those cars, not on par. I disagree that the P85D is on par with the current M5, previous M5, current M3, or previous M3, or the current RS7 from 60-90.

I think the P90DL is about on par with those but again, the P85D should have been faster than all of them from 60-90.

You can watch all the drag videos of the P85D against the Aventador, Ferrari, various M cars, etc. It beats them all off the line and continues to gain distance until 50-60mph. Then for the next few seconds, which would be that 60-90mph range, the acceleration is the same or very close as neither car gains on the other. Only toward the end of the run, at 90+mph, do those cars really gain back and or pass the Tesla.

 

[sorka]

You can watch all the drag videos of the P85D against the Aventador, Ferrari, various M cars, etc. It beats them all off the line and continues to gain distance until 50-60mph. Then for the next few seconds, it's very close. Only toward the end of the run, at 90+mph, do those cars really gain back and or pass the Tesla.

No argument from me that it beats them all of the line. The P85D is not only faster from a start than all of them but you don't need a professional race car driver or launch mode to get the same consistent 0-60 times every time. Grandma could do it. In fact, my mother in law did and she's a great grandma

From a start, it's going to be 90 MPH before those cars catch up to it and pass it. But long before that happens, those car's rate of acceleration is going to exceed the P85Ds and they'll have to make up the ground from 60-90 that the P85D gained on them from 0-60. From a rolling start at freeway speeds, it's a different story.

 

[DoctorJJ]

No argument from me that it beats them all of the line. The P85D is not only faster from a start than all of them but you don't need a professional race car driver or launch mode to get the same consistent 0-60 times every time. Grandma could do it. In fact, my mother in law did and she's a great grandma

From a start, it's going to be 90 MPH before those cars catch up to it and pass it. But long before that happens, those car's rate of acceleration is going to exceed the P85Ds and they'll have to make up the ground from 60-90 that the P85D gained on them from 0-60. From a rolling start at freeway speeds, it's a different story.

No, they don't make up ground 60-90. 0-60 the Tesla wins. 60-90 it's roughly even. They don't gain back any ground. Then finally above 90 they gain back what they lost from 0-60. And by the time they get to 120, they might have passed the Tesla depending on which car you're talking about.

E90 M3 70-90 3.1 seconds
P85D 70-90 2.5 seconds

What speeds are you passing at?

 

[sorka]

No, they don't make up ground 60-90. 0-60 the Tesla wins. 60-90 it's roughly even. They don't gain back any ground. Then finally above 90 they gain back what they lost from 0-60. And by the time they get to 120, they might have passed the Tesla depending on which car you're talking about.

By 3.5 seconds, the Lambo is already accelerating faster and passes the P85D at 7 seconds.

But a better comparison is this rolling start between a P85D and an RS7. Jump to 1:15 so you can the cars side by side.

 

[AndreyATC]

Sorka,
I'm a bit confused with your examples
While we already derailed the thread, i'll keep it short
You replied to lolachampcar that those BMWs will do better job passing on highway speeds than Tesla
I'm not going to argue that the top end on them are better, especially above 100
What you're didnt realize, and lolachampcar may correct me here, is that it meant that reaction time to pass on highway speeds is still better on Tesla
When you're in top gear cruising in any ICE, it WILL take much more time to downshift to lowest gear and rev the engine, while Tesla is already gone

Your examples above are setup races which have nothing to do with discussion you started about shifting speeds

 

[DoctorJJ]

By 3.5 seconds, the Lambo is already accelerating faster and passes the P85D at 7 seconds.

But a better comparison is this rolling start between a P85D and an RS7. Jump to 1:15 so you can the cars side by side.

The Aventador weighs considerably less and runs a 10.9 second 1/4. It's way faster than the Tesla. Even the Aventador's owner says the Tesla seems faster to 50. By 7 seconds the Aventador is going over 100. Again, proving my point that it's really the speeds above 90. And we also know the SOC on the Tesla. We also know the RS7 is stock. Because if it's posted on the Internet, it's true!

 

[sorka]

Sorka,
I'm a bit confused with your examples
While we already derailed the thread, i'll keep it short
You replied to lolachampcar that those BMWs will do better job passing on highway speeds than Tesla
I'm not going to argue that the top end on them are better, especially above 100
What you're didnt realize, and lolachampcar may correct me here, is that it meant that reaction time to pass on highway speeds is still better on Tesla
When you're in top gear cruising in any ICE, it WILL take much more time to downshift to lowest gear and rev the engine, while Tesla is already gone

Your examples above are setup races which have nothing to do with discussion you started about shifting speeds

The setup race was an example of a P85D and and RS7 side by side at the same speed and then both punching it at the same time. This was in response to:

You can watch all the drag videos of the P85D against the Aventador, Ferrari, various M cars, etc. It beats them all off the line and continues to gain distance until 50-60mph. Then for the next few seconds, which would be that 60-90mph range, the acceleration is the same or very close as neither car gains on the other. Only toward the end of the run, at 90+mph, do those cars really gain back and or pass the Tesla.

But you're right, this thread has been totally hijacked.

 

[shokunin]

For ICE it's going to be relative to what gear you're in and the RPMs relative to where you want to go. Most races like RS7 video above, the guy or gal in the RS7 is likely to be lowest gear for the given speed then punches it down and stays in gear or the DCT's 2nd clutch engages one gear down or anticipates one gear up.

If an ICE is traveling on the highway 7th gear at 2800 rpm punching the pedal will need shift to 3rd and rev up and go. Most DCTs work on odd/even gears, so the same clutch will have disengage and engage the 3rd gear and go.

Now if he's trying to race he's probably already in lowest gear and upshifts will be super quick.

 

[lolachampcar]

I take the play car once or twice a week. There is no comparison between it and my PD. From a day to day standpoint, the PD is functionally superior in every way but then I normally do not exceed 85 mph on a daily basis. The play car will leave the PD like a scalded mutt over 100 mph but if they found each other cruising down the interstate at 65 mph and both headed to 100, the PD would kill it as the PD is always game. Turbo lag and downshifting is simply too much of a handicap even for 625hp/3000lbs/double clutch worth of advantage.

To be clear, I agree that sorka is absolutely correct in that the PD does not accelerate hard over 80 mph.

 

[wk057]

So, whats the best 1/4 mile we have for a P90D so far? 11.3 is the best I've seen I think?