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P90D Ludicrous Performance Against Battery Percentage Left

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by badboy1980, Aug 18, 2016.

  1. badboy1980

    badboy1980 Member

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    Hi All,

    I have a P90D Ludicrous on route to me (Its my 2nd Tesla, the 1st being a 85D). I was wondering how much the 0-60 performance is affected by the battery charge level. For example, if the battery is at 90% it does 0-60 in 2.8 secs but if its at 50% does it complete 0-60 any slower?

    I searched the forums and couldn't really find anything.

    Also if you don't pre heat the battery what affect does this have on Ludicrous? Does the 0-60 remain the same but after 60mph it doesn't pull away as fast/hard?

    I would really appreciate some factual feedback. Thanks all!
     
  2. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    #2 ArtInCT, Aug 18, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
    I have owned my P90DL for six months. When you are in Ludicrous mode with or without MAX, the pull is essentially... terrifying. (BTW, Sport mode is also very enjoyable as well) I have not invoked MAX (Battery pre heating for performance) very often actually. I suspect you are asking about the performance vs battery SOC (State of Charge) regarding formal 1/8 or 1/4 drag racing. If that is the case, you probably want your SOC to be as high as possible to such an event and use shore power to MAX heat the battery.

    I have not found my P90DL to have ever stopped pulling either in Sport or Ludicrous modes. The car is a torque beast and frankly deserves some nice sticky tires for summer use.

    The P90DL is a delight to use and drive. With my low daily miles on average, I normally only charge to 70% SOC so I am a good barometer for how the car performs on sub optimal SOC. You are not to worry.... it performs.

    BTW my lifetime actual Wh per mile is about 321 now. Which is reflective of my commute's terrain and overall use. I can very easily get up to the 650+ Wh per mile range with ample use of the go pedal and open roads.

    The longest round trip I have taken was about 230 miles without a charge starting at 90%. I had about 12% SOC left upon return. Rain held down my over the ground speed to perhaps 55 MPH which probably helped Wh/m by keeping it low. This particular trip had a +1000 foot elevation gain going out and -1000 coming back. HVAC and wipers were running all trip long along with the headlamps. What this means to you is that you can traverse any inter SuperCharge gap fairly easily.

    Lastly, I am very pleased with my P90DL. I am very glad I did not settle for the 90D which was an initial consideration for me at order time. I love the "Terrifying" bit every once and a while. ;-) Also, so called high performance cars, which I have owned over the years tended to resell very quickly and hold value better than run of the mill normal production examples.

    PS: I am sorry to have quoted MILES vs KM but I find KM fiddly and am not about to get into the conversion bits of that.... haha
     
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  3. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    I started a thread that shows the Max Power vs SOC. The key graph is here:

    Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp

    The graph easily shows the answer: 50% SOC for a P90D Ludicrous would be the same as a 100% SOC for a P85 Insane which is 3.2 seconds.
     
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  4. badboy1980

    badboy1980 Member

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    Hi Old Man Mike,

    Do you have a graph similar to that, but shows 0-60 times in relation to soc?
     
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  5. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    But the power is the same for both up to about 40 MPH since the car is traction limited until then. After that, the remainder of the 40 to 60 time will be effected by SOC. So there will be a difference but it won't b 3.2.

    Vboxing my P85D (before ludicrous upgrade) the difference between 60% and 90% was about 0.1 seconds. The difference between 70-90 MPH passes was far greater because the entire event occurs with reduced power.
     
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  6. badboy1980

    badboy1980 Member

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    So basically very little difference. 0.1 seconds is a very small amount on a battery that is 50% full
     
  7. NSX1992

    NSX1992 Member

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    For every day use I would not worry about it but at the dragstrip it makes a big difference. My P85DL did the 1/4 mile in 11.224 @ 94% and 11.558 @ 75%. Of course for 0 to 60 the difference would be much less.
     
  8. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    #8 Old Man Mike, Aug 18, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
    Sorka,

    I know you have been in several debates about traction limitations. In your thread you appeared to disagree with Consumer Report's testing that maximum g force was obtained in about 1/3 second. At the end of the debate in that thread you said you were going to revisit the testing.

    Anyway, I'll start with a repost of my Max Power vs SOC chart:

    [​IMG]

    Note that the maximum available power for a 3.2 second Insane mode is 415 Kw. That is about the same maximum available power with Ludicrous at 50% SOC. Given that simple fact, you would have to conclude that Ludicrous at 50% SOC would result in approximately 3.2 second 0-60. It would not be just a 0.1 second reduction from 2.8 to 2.9 seconds.

    By all means, show us a 2.9 second 0-60 with your Ludicrous P85D at 50% using the Vbox. I think it will be much closer to 3.2 second than 2.9 second. If not, you might force me to get my Vbox out and do the same test with my P90D.

    One additional side note; if you get a P90D with a V2 battery and you keep Max Battery Pwr OFF, there will be virtually no difference in performance from 100% SOC down to 70% SOC. This is because the V2 battery has much more power available but capped at aproximately 480 kw when Max Battery Pwr OFF.
     
  9. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    First, I said 60%, not 50%. Secondly the best I've done at 90% is 2.85 so if it follows the same difference as Insane did, I should be able to get a 3.0 at 50%. So one example is right there in the thread. 3.21% at 74%. 3.159 at 80%. The third run at 90% was was also 3.16 seconds so it wasn't actually any faster up to 60. So for a 90 down to 70% SOC, the difference was about 0.05 seconds.

    Thirdly, I've done many runs since that original post and I've never had maximum gs come anywhere near the slope that the CR report shows. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion?
     
  10. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    Really not much but since you brought up traction limited it relates directly to that.

    But I know you are a smart guy which puzzles me why you cannot agree that two Tesla model S cars limited to the same max power would have the same 0-60 performance.
     
  11. badboy1980

    badboy1980 Member

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    so guys could i achieve around 2.8 sec 0-60 if the battery was 40% (when i say around I mean + 0.2 secs).
     
  12. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Uphill or Downhill? Rain or Dry? Below Freezing or Above?
    Really, you will have to figure that one out yourself when your car arrives.
     
  13. badboy1980

    badboy1980 Member

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    Erm, thanks.
     
  14. SDRick

    SDRick Member

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    When 0 to 60 mile times are quoted using V box or otherwise, is this with 1 foot rollout or actual?
     
  15. thimel

    thimel Member

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    The software available with the Vbox makes both numbers available. Most U.S. people give the times with one foot rollout.
     
  16. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    If you are asking about a 2016 P90D with Ludicrous and V2 battery, the 2.8 sec 0-60 should be achievable at 60% SOC but probably not at 40%. To be sure, we need more data points below the 80% SOC for the V2 battery to establish a more accurate curve for the graph.
     
  17. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    When did I disagree with that? All I'm saying is that there's not that much difference 0-60 between 60% and 90%.
     
  18. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    Your first post in this thread appear to disagree with my statement that 50% SOC with P90DL (v1batt) would have about the same 0-60 performance as a P85D 90% Insane 0-60 which is 3.2 seconds. This was based on both cars having a maximum of 415 kw at those two points on the graph.

    Apologies if you were in agreement.
     
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  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    I see your point. I think that simply escaped me. I agree that two cars making a peak of 414KW should have the same 0-60 time provided their power curves in the software limited portion of the curve is the same.

    The P85D's 0-60 was improved from 3.2 to 3.1 with a software update by changing the early power delivery curve. Peak power did not improve.
     
  20. Old Man Mike

    Old Man Mike Member

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    Interesting. I had missed that and was using the older 3.2 sec number. I stand corrected.
     

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