P90D vs 100D

[n8dagr8]

Looooooong time lurker but getting close to decision time (current Q7 TDI owner).

So I'm seeing some P90D lease take overs out there and they stack up to a new 100D. I like the ventilated sets and I'm cool with AP1 (most of my driving is on well defined freeways) but I remember seeing something about battery issues with the 90D (clearly not doing a good job searching the forums). I also like the idea of taking over a lease (shorter duration).

What words of wisdom/caution/advise would you guys give in this situation?

What should I look out for in the 90D (I guess not too much if it's a lease, aka Tesla's problem).

Cautions when taking over a lease?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

(I'm located in SoCal and very close to a Tesla SC).

 

[carbonx]

Looooooong time lurker but getting close to decision time (current Q7 TDI owner).

So I'm seeing some P90D lease take overs out there and they stack up to a new 100D. I like the ventilated sets and I'm cool with AP1 (most of my driving is on well defined freeways) but I remember seeing something about battery issues with the 90D (clearly not doing a good job searching the forums). I also like the idea of taking over a lease (shorter duration).

What words of wisdom/caution/advise would you guys give in this situation?

What should I look out for in the 90D (I guess not too much if it's a lease, aka Tesla's problem).

Cautions when taking over a lease?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

(I'm located in SoCal and very close to a Tesla SC).

Leases are definitely a low-risk way of getting into Tesla. I'd also advise that you check with your local OA/store for any inventory or showroom deals as I've seen some large discounts on the 100D's. If you score a good deal the lease could potentially be lower.

 

[chillaban]

Definitely read the find print for lease takeovers. When I read the US Bank lease agreement, there was not a provision for transfer of lease ownership, there was only a way to add an additional person (e.g. you) as being jointly and severally liable for the account. So, you're pretty much becoming co-lessees with the previous owners, which is hardly ideal.

Maybe things have changed with Tesla Leasing, but lease takeovers are not without their risks either.


I'm definitely a huge fan of the 100D's price/performance/range ratio compared to a P90D.

 

[rush6410]

I remember seeing something about battery issues with the 90D

Not sure what you have read, but, the 90D battery has been working fine or as expected. I have less than a percent degradation at 16,000 miles and just over a year. I think a lot of the concerns had more to do with ignorance on how road and weather conditions impact range. All batteries will have this same impact. Another missed point was the 22" wheels reduce range by 15%. With those considerations, the 90D is fine.

 

[chillaban]

Not sure what you have read, but, the 90D battery has been working fine or as expected. I have less than a percent degradation at 16,000 miles and just over a year. I think a lot of the concerns had more to do with ignorance on how road and weather conditions impact range. All batteries will have this same impact. Another missed point was the 22" wheels reduce range by 15%. With those considerations, the 90D is fine.

It sure seems like there's more threads about 90D pack degradation in the first few versions of it, as well as supercharging cycle based throttling specific to the 90D pack. I do agree though that a lot of it is unscientific/anecdotal at best, and there's not really a trend that would suggest avoiding the 90kWh pack. More that the 100D is a tempting choice for those in the market.

 

[Krash]

Are you planning on buying the P90D off lease, or do you only care about the battery degradation during the period of the lease?

 

[rush6410]

It sure seems like there's more threads about 90D pack degradation in the first few versions of it, as well as supercharging cycle based throttling specific to the 90D pack. I do agree though that a lot of it is unscientific/anecdotal at best, and there's not really a trend that would suggest avoiding the 90kWh pack. More that the 100D is a tempting choice for those in the market.

I have seen many threads based on wrong assumptions rather than evidence based which few exist but are around. I wonder if higher volume of concerns with the 90kWh is based on more vehicles with the pack. Some folks just can not get over the fact that you need to adjust your speed and behaviors if you want to achieve a reasonable kWh average. In an ICE vehicle, if the conditions caused a 20% degradation in mpg average, it is not a big deal. But, on battery, 20% is a big deal. I always set a destination and correct my speed in order to make it their. Their are times I can average 75 and others 65. You just have to be willing to consider range where it may have never been a concern.

 

[verygreen]

I have seen many threads based on wrong assumptions rather than evidence based which few exist but are around. I wonder if higher volume of concerns with the 90kWh is based on more vehicles with the pack. Some folks just can not get over the fact that you need to adjust your speed and behaviors if you want to achieve a reasonable kWh average. In an ICE vehicle, if the conditions caused a 20% degradation in mpg average, it is not a big deal. But, on battery, 20% is a big deal. I always set a destination and correct my speed in order to make it their. Their are times I can average 75 and others 65. You just have to be willing to consider range where it may have never been a concern.

Tesla's 85 kWh rating needs an asterisk (up to 81 kWh, with up to ~77 kWh usable) and surruoundign discussion is quite enlightening.

That said you you take over a lease, as long as you are ok with degradation in the remaining lease period and don't plan to keep the car once the lease runs out - it's not a problem..
Another consideration, at end of quarter people were able to get leases for P100Ds for the price of 100D leases - something to think about.

 

[n8dagr8]

Are you planning on buying the P90D off lease, or do you only care about the battery degradation during the period of the lease?

If the car is what I hope it will be, yes (possibly....most likely. )

If not, car would be turned in and I'm sure by that time we'll have a few more options in EV land.

 

[Gwgan]

A 90 is fine as long as you realize you’re starting with an ~83 then typically drive between 20% and 80% and then take a hit in cold weather. The 100 is closer to an actual 100, so almost 20% more battery to start with if you need it. I get 150 miles practical winter trip range on my P90D at almost 50k miles (20” wheels).

 

[n8dagr8]

Definitely read the find print for lease takeovers. When I read the US Bank lease agreement, there was not a provision for transfer of lease ownership, there was only a way to add an additional person (e.g. you) as being jointly and severally liable for the account. So, you're pretty much becoming co-lessees with the previous owners, which is hardly ideal.QUOTE]

Great point. Will definitely look out for that.

 

[rush6410]

Just pulled some data from teslfi.com to compare usable kWh by battery pack. The 90kWh outperforms all others. Battery kWh usable percentage - real evidence

 

[verygreen]

Just pulled some data from teslfi.com to compare usable kWh by battery pack. The 90kWh outperforms all others. Battery kWh usable percentage - real evidence

The data you use is highly suspect (wrt representativeness in particular, but other problems too), I put my argument in that other thread as a more fitting place.

 

[rush6410]

The data you use is highly suspect (wrt representativeness in particular, but other problems too), I put my argument in that other thread as a more fitting place.

I appreciate the argument. Need more data.

 

[Tjhappel]

I’d go for the 100 hands down but I drove a ton and really love the car for family road trips. Stopping to charge sucks with young kids no matter what anyone says so anything I can do to mitigate that charge time I’d do. I have a 90d, current max charge is 240-242 rated, I have 20’s and live in so cal and am lucky to get over 215 miles by myself. Add winter +kids+ weight and your at 150 like post above said.

I really think the X could use a much larger battery. It’s such a badass vehicle that you’ll never want to take any ice vehicle over it, it just currently has “road trip” limitations IMO.

Enjoy whatever you end up with, they knocked it put of the park on the way it drives. Also it’s amazing in snow and ice conditions, great traction control.