Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Pacific Northwest Owners (Seattle, Portland, or towns/cities in the region)

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
It's damage done to your car that appears to have been done by a vehicle, but that vehicle was never seen at all by any known witness.
Different from a hit and run where you know for sure it was a vehicle, just not who owns it.

That's an interesting distinction. Is that just for your insurance policy, or is that distinction in the statutes, too? My wife came out of the dentist six months ago to find that somebody had backed into her car. She didn't see it happen and there were no witnesses. Does this mean that the law would not consider it hit and run? I wanted her to report it, but she never did, so I have no idea what the cops' opinions would have been.
 
Is that just for your insurance policy, or is that distinction in the statutes, too? My wife came out of the dentist six months ago to find that somebody had backed into her car. She didn't see it happen and there were no witnesses. Does this mean that the law would not consider it hit and run?
This is just an insurance term, defining if they will cover damage to your car even if you have no idea how it occurred. Which of course can be problematic for insurance fraud.

Legally, the person that hit your car is guilty of hit and run. It doesn't matter if the law knows who they are or not. It's not like you aren't guilty of murder if nobody knows you did it ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: TunaBug
and in US you are in fact not guilty until proven so, and therefore convicted. You must have heard the legal presumption of innocence before - "innocent until proven guilty"?
You mean you are not FOUND guilty. But the laws are not written that way. You are guilty if you do something. The literal definition of guilty:
culpable of or responsible for a specified wrongdoing.
In my state, the law is:
(1) A person is guilty of murder in the first degree when:
(a) With a premeditated intent to cause the death of another person, he or she causes the death of such person or of a third person;
That doesn't say you are only guilty after found guilty in a court.
 
You mean you are not FOUND guilty. But the laws are not written that way. You are guilty if you do something. The literal definition of guilty:

In my state, the law is:

That doesn't say you are only guilty after found guilty in a court.
No, the law you quoted is the guideline for finding someone guilty in court. You are not guilty in the eyes of the law until you are charged and receive a guilty verdict. To do that, the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that you meet the criteria set out in the law. The law in the US explicitly states that all criminal defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's in the eyes of the law. As far as in the eyes of individuals, that depends on the specific individual, therefore they will be many different, contrary opinions.
 
No, the law you quoted is the guideline for finding someone guilty in court.
It's not. It's literally the definition of what makes you guilty of a crime. Are you saying all RCW's are just "guidelines for finding someone guilty in court?" How come all RCW's don't say "someone is guilty in court if they...." instead of just "someone is guilty if they..."

"Guilty" definition:

having committed an offense, crime, violation, or wrong, especially against moral or penal law; justly subject to a certain accusation or penalty; culpable:

You are guilty the instant you commit an offense. You are conflating the process where we find people guilty in court and convict and apply punishment with the general idea of guilt.

This is why we use the term "found guilty" - it indicates that the law had enough evidence to find guilt. But that's independent of if you were actually guilty. Kind of like we unfortunately find people guilty sometimes when they weren't actually. Are you claiming that they are guilty even when they did nothing because the court found them guilty?
 
It's not. It's literally the definition of what makes you guilty of a crime. Are you saying all RCW's are just "guidelines for finding someone guilty in court?" How come all RCW's don't say "someone is guilty in court if they...." instead of just "someone is guilty if they..."

"Guilty" definition:



You are guilty the instant you commit an offense. You are conflating the process where we find people guilty in court and convict and apply punishment with the general idea of guilt.

This is why we use the term "found guilty" - it indicates that the law had enough evidence to find guilt. But that's independent of if you were actually guilty. Kind of like we unfortunately find people guilty sometimes when they weren't actually. Are you claiming that they are guilty even when they did nothing because the court found them guilty?
So if you are found "not guilty" in the court of law because you have a good defense lawyer who convinced the jurors, but you know you did it, are you guilty or not in the eyes of the law? Are you saying that in the eyes of the law you would be "guilty but found not guilty"? Have you ever heard a judge declare "the defendant is legally guilty found not guilty"?

Some suggested reading for you:

As to morality that you somehow brought into this equation, that is not enforced by criminal law at all. Morality actually a very fluid concept that varies from individual to individual. Religions sometimes have morality rules, but those are not criminal laws and not enforced by the state (e.g. you don't go to jail for sleeping with your neighbor's wife, even though that is considered immoral by a lot of people), at least in the western culture (as there are cultures which enshrine religious morality into their criminal law, and you can get legally stoned to death for committing adultery).
 
Supercharger Voting is live again.

Need votes for Florence to close the Bandon to Lincoln City gap.
Every new SC is a great gift, but…… there are much larger gaps that also need filling. How about WSU Pullman? Lots of parents travel RT and there’s just a single Chademo DCQC. Omak/Okanogan, Winthrop/Twisp, and/or Newhalem to split Highway 97 & 20? Anywhere on US95 between Boise & Winnemucca? Ely, NV Packwood & Eatonville for access to White Pass & Mnt Rainier? John Day, OR, Lewiston, Salmon, ID. Bremerton/Silverdale/Paulsbo/Port Orchard is probably swarming with vehicles by now and likely needs some attention. Kalispell, Shelby MT. Riverton & Cody, WY.

Lots and lots of locations needs attention and will hopefully get it soon.
 
The loop around the backside of Rainer (Packwood or anywhere close to there) is a total charging desert. and makes any kind of Ranier trip nerve wracking.

But of course Tesla's supercharger voting system doesn't let you pick arbitrary places. Just places they're already considering them. So it's kind of pointless.
I agree re: Packwood. I went camping out at La Wis Wis this summer and did a few side hikes and it was pretty sketchy getting back. We went north back towards settle with tons of elevation and our battery was disappearing quickly. I made the bet that we would capture enough on the descent but I couldn't calculate my remaining battery due to no service. So I went with intuition since I've taken many road trips over 4 years of owning a Tesla but I never would've tried if I was a new owner.

By the way, Tesla let's you vote on 5 locations and propose a location here: Supercharger Voting | Tesla Other Europe However, it's a bit strange how it handles the location you type in. I could not get it to recognize Newhalem, WA but rather had to select Newhalem street, Marblemount, WA.
 
If the parts are really 6 months out, everyone will be 6 months out. Take the estimate you have and call the closest Tesla service center, and ask for the lead time on the body panel. If it's 6 months, then you're stuck. If it's 4 days, then you know your local place was misleading you and it's probably that they are backed up 6 months.

FYI, there are brand new quarters, on ebay, ready to ship right now.

Thanks to everyone for all the info, very informative since I have not needed any bodywork for decades. The quarter-panel just got ordered and then it's the waiting game for the autobody shop to have a spot open.

Just to be clear, the delay in getting my Model 3 repaired has nothing to do with lead times on parts and everything to do with all the body shops in the region being booked out to April or May (before they will even let me drop off the car). I have put about 200 miles on the car since it was damaged and other than a little tire to fender wall contact (light rubbing) over bumps or fast dips, there are no issues. I don't want to sue my next-door neighbor so I guess I will just live with the big, ugly smashed panel until it can be repaired.

Thanks everyone and Merry Christmas!
 
  • Like
Reactions: wtlloyd
I am once again asking everyone to vote for locations near Glacier national park 🙏🙏🙏

One of my favorite coast to coast routes involves looping up to Glacier and it's currently about 350 miles between the two closest superchargers if you head through going to the sun road. You've got to make some lengthy L2 charging stops to do the trip at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StealthP3D
Thought that I should cross-post here instead of starting a new thread. If anyone wants a set of 21” arachnids for a model S:
FS: 21” Arachnid Wheels for Model S, Pressure Sensors, 2 good tires

Still available. Here’s some updated info based on questions:

Silver-grey colored, not black like the winter tires currently on Tesla’s website. The website price is what I remember my wheels being listed for, back in 2019 or so. FYI, I looked back at my paperwork, and realized these have seen FOUR summers. Received them in May 2019. Used from May to October only, so probably 20,000 miles, maybe 30,000 but I doubt it’s that much. I’ve only added 45,000 total since 2019.

Weight is essentially the same for front/back, 51.2-51.4 lbs. Also, I measured the front width at about 9.5” and the back at about 10”, so the weight difference must be real.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jebinc