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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

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It is for now. Please don't tell me you think they aren't going to switch after ramp-up...?

Sure they probably will switch at some point, but that doesn't explain why you and someone else are saying that the 100kWh pack now is cheaper to produce than the current 90kWh pack is now. Which is what this was about.

And when they switch it might not be a 100kWh pack anymore.
 
Sure they probably will switch at some point, but that doesn't explain why you and someone else are saying that the 100kWh pack now is cheaper to produce than the current 90kWh pack is now. Which is what this was about.

And when they switch it might not be a 100kWh pack anymore.
I think we were suggesting that by the time this situation actually requires/suggests a replacement, the pack will be cheaper. Separately, I do thing the global price of an 18650 has gone down in the last two years... I agree, it will probably be offered at higher capacity with the new cells, as well.
 
The real big news IMO is this:

As for real capacity, the BMS reports usable capacity at a whopping 98.4 kWh. It also reports a 4 kWh unusable bottom charge, so that's 102.4 kWh total pack capacity! Congratulations, Tesla. A high capacity pack that meets its nameplate rating!

If an accurate representation of the wider picture, this makes the leap from a 90 kWh battery with just 81 kWh usable to 100 kWh with 98.4 kWh usable quite a bit larger than the simple 90 kWh vs. 100 kWh math would claim.

Tesla is going in the right direction with this. Thank you. And big thank you @wk057.

Pics and Info: Inside the Tesla 100kWh Battery Pack | wk057's SkieNET
 
That's not necessarily true.

For example, if someone had an issue that they could get fixed under warranty for free, but it would take three weeks to get an appointment at the service center, or they could have it repaired on their own dime today, some people would choose the latter, at least for some inexpensive repairs.

Also, if the service centers are incredibly swamped, for some simple and inexpensive things Tesla may institute a policy where owners can get service elsewhere, and get reimbursed. This would likely be a stop-gap measure, until there are enough service centers. But with the Model 3 coming out, I would think there may be a need for this kind of thing, at least in some situations.

That's true... good point.
 
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Tesla is going in the right direction with this.

Being the contrarian ;)

I'd argue they are in some ways going the wrong way.

The original 60 with 5040 cells, on a per cell basis does the same EPA mileage. Yet index linked the pricing is rising above inflation.

My 60 has more than enough miles (for me), so actually I'd prefer it to be lighter and cheaper to show a directional focus towards the Model 3's stated goals.

IOW A do more with less, rather than do more with even more mentality.

I do agree with the big thanks to Jason however ;)
 
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WK's work flies in the face of the idea that 100 KW packs can not go into P85DLs. I really would like to hear from Tesla as to why we P85DL owners can not simply buy a 100 KW pack and swap it out. It would be a bucket load cheaper than selling our P85DLs (and about $10K cheaper still then taking Tesla's trade in offer).

Would someone from Tesla care to add color to the "no" it can not be done response? Is it simply, no we just do not want to do it? Cool if it is, please just say so.
 
WK's work flies in the face of the idea that 100 KW packs can not go into P85DLs. I really would like to hear from Tesla as to why we P85DL owners can not simply buy a 100 KW pack and swap it out. It would be a bucket load cheaper than selling our P85DLs (and about $10K cheaper still then taking Tesla's trade in offer).

Would someone from Tesla care to add color to the "no" it can not be done response? Is it simply, no we just do not want to do it? Cool if it is, please just say so.
I do believe it is possible to upgrade the P85DL. Hope to get a real answer soon, as you suggest!
 
WK's work flies in the face of the idea that 100 KW packs can not go into P85DLs. I really would like to hear from Tesla as to why we P85DL owners can not simply buy a 100 KW pack and swap it out. It would be a bucket load cheaper than selling our P85DLs (and about $10K cheaper still then taking Tesla's trade in offer).

Would someone from Tesla care to add color to the "no" it can not be done response? Is it simply, no we just do not want to do it? Cool if it is, please just say so.

The packs were designed from day 1 to be interchangable, even if the cell technology was entirely different. I see no reason to think this is a technical decision instead of a business one.
 
WK's work flies in the face of the idea that 100 KW packs can not go into P85DLs. I really would like to hear from Tesla as to why we P85DL owners can not simply buy a 100 KW pack and swap it out. It would be a bucket load cheaper than selling our P85DLs (and about $10K cheaper still then taking Tesla's trade in offer).

Would someone from Tesla care to add color to the "no" it can not be done response? Is it simply, no we just do not want to do it? Cool if it is, please just say so.
How many examples of pack capacity upgrades have there been? I know early on that Tesla has been very reluctant to do upgrades where the capacity is different, for example upgrading 60 to 85 (even though there is no part difference at all, so don't even need that adapter). I know of only one example where Tesla agreed to do this.

The other thread discussed this, but that 100kWh pack is worth far more money (to Tesla) in a new car than upgrading an old one. They very much would rather you sell the car and buy a new one.
 
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How many examples of pack capacity upgrades have there been? I know early on that Tesla has been very reluctant to do upgrades where the capacity is different, for example upgrading 60 to 85 (even though there is no part difference at all, so don't even need that adapter). I know of only one example where Tesla agreed to do this.

The other thread discussed this, but that 100kWh pack is worth far more money (to Tesla) in a new car than upgrading an old one. They very much would rather you sell the car and buy a new one.

When the 90 was introduced Musk talked about other models being upgradable to the 90, and said something to the effect that it wouldn't make sense for people with 85s to upgrade for just 5kWh, and that he expected 85 owners would wait for a more substantial upgrade.

Edit: Here's the exact quote--

New Tesla Model S Options: 90 kWh Battery, Ludicrous Mode, Cheaper Base Model

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Update: There has been some reporting confusion in the media surrounding whether or not current 85 kWh Model S owners can also get their battery upgraded to a 90 kWh pack, and what that cost might be. As we understood it, no such option was being offered, so we reached out to Tesla for clarification and was informed via a spokesperson that “You cannot retrofit the battery pack. Only retrofit is available to P85D customers is the ludicrous mode.”

Which basically means that existing 85 kWh Model S sedans can have their packs replaced with a new 90 kWh pack featuring the new improved chemistry, but not the old unit itself upgraded for the $3,000 fee and then retained (we assume a residual trade-in value would be placed on and given for the original pack).

Hence the statement from CEO Musk stating that he “wouldn’t recommend doing so (upgrading to 90 kWh) unless your usage is on the edge of current range.” While adding, “On average, we expect to increase pack capacity by roughly 5% per year. Better to wait until you have more time on your existing pack and there is a larger accumulated pack energy difference.
--
 
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WK's work flies in the face of the idea that 100 KW packs can not go into P85DLs. I really would like to hear from Tesla as to why we P85DL owners can not simply buy a 100 KW pack and swap it out. It would be a bucket load cheaper than selling our P85DLs (and about $10K cheaper still then taking Tesla's trade in offer).

Would someone from Tesla care to add color to the "no" it can not be done response? Is it simply, no we just do not want to do it? Cool if it is, please just say so.

There might be additional changes required for the cooling system. It needs to be beefier to handle higher total heat load in P100D pack.
 
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Did you see WK's last post? ( Pics/Info: Inside the Tesla 100 kWh Battery Pack)

I think this puts to bed any speculation that it is not possible.

I did. He only mentioned that coolant connector is the same. Total heat load of P100D is higher than P90D. It is possible that existing P90D cooling system has spare capacity to handle the extra heat load, but we do not know if it does.

My point is that putting P100D pack in P90D might require additional modification/replacement of cooling system components that are outside the pack.
 
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In fairness, wk057's post does suggest older models (P85/P85D/pre-facelifts?) would require changes in the connector area, but he seemed to suggest this is merely a small spare part swap.

I would also think that if the pack is significantly heavier (and I've not heard of one being weighed) then potentially other stuff like spring rates would need to be changed for the car to ride right.

Probably not an issue for P85D cars on air. But in the distant future when my 60 needs a new pack, the option to use a 100 pack on it's original coils might not be as straightforward.

I do know simple things like tyre pressures are different between the original 60 and the original 85. (42 vs 45 psi)
 
My point is that putting P100D pack in P90D might require additional modification/replacement of cooling system components that are outside the pack.

I agree, though I would replace the term "cooling system" to "other".

We simply do not know what other things in the car have changed concurrently to the pack introduction. So whilst it may "work" it may not be warrant-able, or give the full experience Tesla's engineers intended.
 
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I agree, though I would replace the term "cooling system" to "other".

We simply do not know what other things in the car have changed concurrently to the pack introduction. So whilst it may "work" it may not be warrant-able, or give the full experience Tesla's engineers intended.

They will remove FUSC and swap your interior trim to one of the packs? ;)

(In all seriousness, a good point guys about the coils.)
 
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