Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[Tech_Guy]

Another observation.
Why on earth did this message have even a snowball's chance of getting posted on the forums? It is customer service and PR management 101 to address these cases privately and in person to prevent such a screen shot from being posted on a public forum. I can see the headlines now; Sure, you can buy Tesla's fancy car but if you use it you will get this screen.

This is not push back for posting the screen shot but an observation that you should never have been put in the position in the first place. They KNEW you had a problem and KNEW they were going to be taking responsibility for the condition of your car. Why on earth let you go through this part of the process when it was known you would go through it. It adds no value yet does tremendous damage.

After @JonMc post I did contact my SM about whether my car might need some components replaced per the power restrictions and JonMc's post and he didn't think that it would...

Obviously he can't possibly know what tesla has in mind here with the unreleased software but I did ask him that question about 2 weeks ago. Now that the software is installed it's obvious that there are further issues to address... in my call today my SM assured me that it's nothing to be concerned about! The car is safe to drive and this will be addressed at my service appointment next week!

 

[hostman]

Well, same here!

Ugh.

 

[MP3Mike]

So obviously it appears that the limit was turned on after it detected some damage before the damage got worse. It will be interesting to see if we find out what gets replaced/serviced...

Sadly I suspect they will pull the battery, give you a loaner, and send your battery to Fremont for repair and you won't get any actual details of what they did to it.

 

[Tech_Guy]

Sadly I suspect they will pull the battery, give you a loaner, and send your battery to Fremont for repair and you won't get any actual details of what they did to it.

Which is sad and a waste of money for tesla as I intend to upgrade to a p100d battery and refurbishing a battery I plan to upgrade seems like a waste of resources, shipping, components, labor, and recycling but most importantly a waste of time vs just proving me the upgrade... maybe @JonMc can help me AND TESLA here?!

 

[hostman]

Which is sad and a waste of money for tesla as I intend to upgrade to a p100d battery and refurbishing a battery I plan to upgrade seems like a waste of resources, shipping, components, labor, and recycling but most importantly a waste of time vs just proving me the upgrade... maybe @JonMc can help me AND TESLA here?!

Same here! Let's upgrade! I need the winter range increase too!

 

[FlatSix911]

Tesla owners can now push their cars to the limits without performance restrictions thanks to new update

The controversy around Tesla’s undisclosed performance restrictions is finally truly coming to an end this week. We reported on Tesla limiting the power output of its performance vehicles after frequent use of ‘launch mode’ and max power. It’s something other sports car manufacturers do in order to prevent premature wear of components caused by the high stress placed on them during those launches, but the problem was that Tesla didn’t tell the owners that they were imposing permanent restrictions because of it.

Last month, Tesla’s President of Sales and Service, Jon McNeill, confirmed that they will end all software performance reductions tied to the frequent use of max power and launch mode. This week, the update started being pushed to customers. Since the revelation, Tesla ha been prompting the ‘I want my mommy’ alert (pictured above) when activating the latest ‘Ludicrous+’ update, which unleashes even more power in Tesla’s top performance vehicles. The alert warns of premature wear and while this is still the case, at least it will not result in automatic limitations to the max power after the new update. In the release of notes of a new update which started being pushed to owners yesterday, Tesla wrote:

Software performance reductions due to frequent max power usage have been removed. These reductions had been in place to proactively protect the powertrain from wear and tear. lnstead, we will monitor the condition of the powertrain and display an alert if service is needed so we can take proactive steps, such as by replacing parts if necessary, to maintain the vehicle’s performance. This new update will enable owners of performance Tesla vehicles, like the Model S P90D or P100D, to fully enjoy the full capacity of their vehicles without fear of permanent restrictions.

 

[lolachampcar]

I think the issue is far simpler then seeing something wrong with the battery.....

Tesla has always had event trackers (counters) and use heuristics to track failure probability. They found (with their own long term testing most likely as no one has reported a major battery failure on the performance models) that, if you use over X number of amps for more than Y number of times, minutes, whatever, that the battery would pop a something. They backed off that failure number of usages and implemented a current limit to keep the failure from occurring. They have now removed the current limiting and must address the stressed battery before it becomes a stress to failure battery.

All speculation but I believe it is supported by the facts.

Did anyone ask their Service Centers about possible other counters being used to track events in other components of the car then reducing capability of that component to avoid failure?

 

[ToxNuke]

+ 1 on the upgrade to 100. Curious to see how this will evolve here in Europe. So far still waiting for the software update...

 

[bhzmark]

you can buy Tesla's fancy car but if you use it you will get this screen.

If you use it in a particular way you will get the screen. We still don't know TG's use case as he refuses to share.

We do know TRCs use case, roughly, and they don't report any issues. Nor does anyone else report any problems.... except daily-launch-mode-on-the-way-to-school hp90dl, and launch-mode-ambassador-at-car-shows hostman.

It's not just use. It is not just aggressive use. It is not just many trips to drag strip and post videos use. It is a further outlier kind of use.

 

[Andyw2100]

Nor does anyone else report any problems.... except daily-launch-mode-on-the-way-to-school hostman.

You are confusing @hostman with the brand new user, @HBP90DL you tried to bully away by saying, without any cause, that he was lying.

Hostman was limited due to all the car shows he went to, doing hundreds or even thousands of launches demoing the car.

 

[bhzmark]

You are confusing @hostman with the brand new user, @HBP90DL you tried to bully away by saying, without any cause, that he was lying.

Hostman was limited due to all the car shows he went to, doing hundreds or even thousands of launches demoing the car.

Edited to fix.

I didn't say he was lying.

I suggested that it seemed improbable that someone wld deliver their kid to school daily with launch mode and perhaps that was an exaggeration. Not unreasonable to wonder about the veracity of such a claim.

 

[Andyw2100]

I didn't say he was lying.

I suggested that it seemed improbable that someone wld deliver their kid to school daily with launch mode and perhaps that was an exaggeration. Not unreasonable to wonder about the veracity of such a claim.

This is what you wrote, in response to the poster's first-ever post on TMC:

Wow launch mode twice a day. W kid on way to school. OK I'll bite in the off chance for real.

(I added the bold.)

This, after bemoaning the fact that very few people were reporting the issue. I have to believe that someone lurking, considering posting about their issue, may have been less likely to do so after seeing your response to @HBP90DL.

 

[msnow]

If you use it in a particular way you will get the screen. We still don't know TG's use case as he refuses to share.

We do know TRCs use case, roughly, and they don't report any issues. Nor does anyone else report any problems.... except daily-launch-mode-on-the-way-to-school hp90dl, and launch-mode-ambassador-at-car-shows hostman.

It's not just use. It is not just aggressive use. It is not just many trips to drag strip and post videos use. It is a further outlier kind of use.

If it's such a small and limited use case it would have made more sense for Tesla to just deal with it on a case by case basis but they didn't. Globally they removed the limitation and promised to take care of it in warranty. That alone should tell you it's not as rare a problem as you believe.

 

[JRP3]

If it's such a small and limited use case it would have made more sense for Tesla to just deal with it on a case by case basis but they didn't. Globally they removed the limitation and promised to take care of it in warranty. That alone should tell you it's not as rare a problem as you believe.

I'm sorry but that's a bit too rational.

 

[Mach Schnell!]

Is Tesla being selective on the deployment of the limiter-removal software update? I haven't received any notification yet for my late-December-delivery P100D. I saw the video today that DragTimes got their update for the P100D.

 

[lolachampcar]

msnow,
That would be the sensible approach if it is a limited number of cars. Given they chose a different path, two thoughts come readily to mind. One, the number was small but their under the table software slight of hand would prevent them from having to address those problems. Two, and the one for me that is more likely and more concerning, would be that there is an issue that will present on a significant number of cars within the eight year battery warranty period thus a risky (if caught) under the table software modification to pull power is necessary. It would have worked too had Tesla taken the time ferret out the "already over the limit" crowd and gotten them over to a P100 battery. Those owners obviously use there cars (yea, you know who you are) and would likely be up for the upgrade. The limits would then kick in slowly over time for the remainder of the fleet making it much harder to know there were software limits.

Both are speculation because no one is posting direct knowledge from within Tesla but, hey, is that not what forums are for?

 

[lolachampcar]

If you use it in a particular way you will get the screen. We still don't know TG's use case as he refuses to share.

We do know TRCs use case, roughly, and they don't report any issues. Nor does anyone else report any problems.... except daily-launch-mode-on-the-way-to-school hp90dl, and launch-mode-ambassador-at-car-shows hostman.

It's not just use. It is not just aggressive use. It is not just many trips to drag strip and post videos use. It is a further outlier kind of use.

I'm absolutely sure those wanting to use the new screen to discredit Tesla will make the clear distinction.

 

[apacheguy]

Is Tesla being selective on the deployment of the limiter-removal software update? I haven't received any notification yet for my late-December-delivery P100D. I saw the video today that DragTimes got their update for the P100D.

The P100D does not have a software limiter enabled.

 

[bhzmark]

I'm sorry but that's a bit too rational.

Not evidence based.

I'm absolutely sure those wanting to use the new screen to discredit Tesla will make the clear distinction.

Of course your own post to carry out your own jihad against Tesla on this point fails to make the quite important distinction.

The problem here is that we are forced to make assumptions based on little evidence (or in some cases ignoring the evidence).

If you want to complain about Tesla doing something wrong, complain that they havent given us good info. We are forced to quibble about which assumptions are better supported by the evidence, but based on very little evidence.

Instead simply ask Tesla to describe with precision what type of use does cause what type of wear or risk of failure on which components. Convert your jihad into a factual and evidence- based line of inquiry.

 

[Mach Schnell!]

The P100D does not have a software limiter enabled.

Yes that's what I understand. But I was surprised to see Dragtimes new video clip today (link from twitter on YouTube) that indicated that he had received his software update "software performance reduction removal " for his Model S P100D. I noticed the picture looks likes his P90D but kind of blurry in cover image.