Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[TIppy]

I don't think Tesla would bother to replace individual bond wires or replace individual cells. More likely repairs would be at the module level not cell level, which would not improve the overall durability of the pack unless all module were replaced with upgraded ones.

It could be a statistical thing. Maybe 1 in 10,000 bond wire welds fail due to imperfect welds. The chance of having two failures in the same pack would be 1 in 100,000,000. So replacing a module would statistically improve the overall durability. There is no guarantee that another module won't fail but the odds are good.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I guess it really depends on what level the issues occur. Hard to say, but I appreciate the different speculation.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't think Tesla would bother to replace individual bond wires or replace individual cells. More likely repairs would be at the module level not cell level, which would not improve the overall durability of the pack unless all module were replaced with upgraded ones.

But I can't see how replacing modules would take months, which is how long it seems for people to get their packs back. We know that replacing a module could be done in hours. Of course I assume they have to do something to try to make sure the module is balanced enough with the other modules.

 

[TIppy]

But I can't see how replacing modules would take months, which is how long it seems for people to get their packs back. We know that replacing a module could be done in hours. Of course I assume they have to do something to try to make sure the module is balanced enough with the other modules.

It could be there are two guys who do pack repairs, and there is a backlog. I just had to have my 2013 P85+ (23,000 miles) battery pack shipped back for repairs.

 

[MP3Mike]

It could be there are two guys who do pack repairs, and there is a backlog. I just had to have my 2013 P85+ (23,000 miles) battery pack shipped back for repairs.

But if it takes ~4 hours to replace a module and you have two guys you should be able to repair 4 packs a day. Figure ~20 working days in a month and a two month back log would mean there are 160 packs waiting to be repaired... And for the backlog to continue you would have to have at least 4 packs a day fail. Do we really think it is that bad?

So I assume what they are doing takes much longer than ~4 hours/pack.

 

[TIppy]

But if it takes ~4 hours to replace a module and you have two guys you should be able to repair 4 packs a day. Figure ~20 working days in a month and a two month back log would mean there are 160 packs waiting to be repaired... And for the backlog to continue you would have to have at least 4 packs a day fail. Do we really think it is that bad?

So I assume what they are doing takes much longer than ~4 hours/pack.

Where does the 4 hours come from? And we don't know that the two guys are working in parallel. It might take two guys to handle a single pack. Then there is shipping and handling. They may not ship your pack the day they remove it from your vehicle. Maybe the guys that work on batteries are also the gardeners, and they only work on the batteries two days a week.

My point is that we have no idea what they do to the batteries or what the priority is for turning them around.
Maybe they ship them to the Philippines for repair.

 

[JRP3]

Maybe they are running "stress tests" like this

 

[TIppy]

Maybe they are running "stress tests" like this

See. I told you there were only two guys working on these.

 

[jerjozwik]

just going to toss this in here, when i first took my car in for the battery service error, the SC mentioned there were cooling errors in the cars logs. this was before they had informed me the entire pack would need to be replaced.

 

[Walta]

Since @benjiejr reported a P85DL triggered this battery service warning? Are we saying this issue is with ALL battery types (V1, V2 and V3 ) ? And is triggered by ludicrous mode performance usage? Minus the P100DL due to the changes in pack design?

 

[MarcG]

Since @benjiejr reported a P85DL triggered this battery service warning? Are we saying this issue is with ALL battery types (V1, V2 and V3 ) ? And is triggered by ludicrous mode performance usage? Minus the P100DL due to the changes in pack design?

That seems to be the case, though I am not sure the P100D immune..

Dreading to see any such warning on my P85D but I'll keep driving it as I always have, i.e. often WOT but rarely MBP (I've used that more to increase regen in cold weather than for high perf) and never LM (latter of which seems to me like the most damage-inducing option..)

 

[Walta]

That seems to be the case, though I am not sure the P100D immune..

Dreading to see any such warning on my P85D but I'll keep driving it as I always have, i.e. often WOT but rarely MBP (I've used that more to increase regen in cold weather than for high perf) and never LM (latter of which seems to me like the most damage-inducing option..)

I agree - we need to keep driving exactly as we like. If something breaks - it will be during the warranty period - and give us feedback on the type of driving that will trigger the damage, and how soon.

If the battery replacement issue includes all ludicrous cars? Tesla will be driven by cost - to fix the issue the right way with a change in battery design, or for the next 8 years suffer the cost of many battery replacements.

Ludicrous was just introduced in 2015 - so there are many years in front of this issue, before the 8 year end of warranty mark triggers. I would expect some motivation on the Tesla side to provide a battery fix, and put the warranty claims behind them?

 

[jerjozwik]

alright, finally got a log cable. super difficult using tm-spy, but it appears im getting 424 kw max. 1500 amp and 283v. first day using the app so i wont say thats my final max.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Any test results from 8.1? I am waiting to upgrade to see if there are any further reductions in power.

I'm guessing no one has had any other good news in the meantime. We're all still down power from the older firmware, right?

 

[jerjozwik]

i have yet to get max bat ready at a high SoC so its not definitive, but still not seeing anything above the 430kw teslalog.com was reporting.
unless my math is wrong [v x amps = kw]... even doing a test with launch mode with 15 min left on MaxBat done at 65% SoC still netted 427-405kW.

i got one fast foot that i was sure would give something over 430, even gave out a subtle "f$#k." which says something from a year long P90D driver. but only netted the regular 430-420.

i attached the screen grab from the launch mode run, you can see the 40-ish kW of pre-torque.

 

[jerjozwik]

teslalog.com version of the drive.

 

[St Charles]

This is maybe not all that surprising given your SoC. @fiksegts did some testing a while back and this seems in line with what he found on his P100D.

Here is hoping you see at least 480kW at high SoC/MB/LM.

 

[jerjozwik]

This is maybe not all that surprising given your SoC. @fiksegts did some testing a while back and this seems in line with what he found on his P100D.

Here is hoping you see at least 480kW at high SoC/MB/LM.

even at 85%, where i used to net 480, im getting 430. but... its almost impossible for me to get max bat ready at that SoC. i dono man...

 

[St Charles]

even at 85%, where i used to net 480, im getting 430. but... its almost impossible for me to get max bat ready at that SoC. i dono man...

Well, it seems that you are right in line with a V1 battery. I guess it all comes down to what MBR and LM can net you above that. I think it's worth a 100% SoC with MBR and LM, just to be sure.

 

[jerjozwik]

mentioning that... ive been thinking about this for a while. v1 v2 and v3 were all tesla f$%king around with output. v3 fail first, @Tech_Guy. v2 was next, me. so then tesla nurfed the output back down to v1 bat levels via a firmware update. which... while sucks for anyone that tasted the sweet nectar that was v2 and v3, it was never really what we expected plopping down the 105k+ for the car. granted there were the marketing ploys of 10.9 and what not, but the p85d never hit 691 so, cant say i did not expect that bit to be false. i did enjoy my test drive and i still enjoy driving the car as i do. bat failures exempt.