Can anyone please recap, is this an issue with the 60D (or any other non-P model)? I'm buying a 60D soon and plan on keeping it for a while and while I personally won't be doing many hard launches I want to know do I need to ask friends who I'm going to let on test drives to avoid floorin the accelerator from a stand still?
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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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- Tesla Inc.
This does not apply to any non P car and I have yet to see any evidence that it applies to any car other than a P90DL with a 1600 amp battery. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.
SDRick
Active Member
I could be wrong as well but I think available power was restricted in all P cars unless the car was at a.full stop and then launch mode engaged.
You're wrong. P100Ds are still getting 550KW without launch mode and P85DLs and P90DL V1s are still getting mid 450s without launch mode. Any evidence to the contrary?
I'm not sure, but I think you have to use launch mode to get the full 1850 amps from ludicrous+(easter egg) on the P100D.
Let me rephrase it the question. Did the the launch mode limit effect the P100Ds easter egg? i.e. were you able to get 1800 amps in easter egg mode before without launch mode and if so does it now require launch mode?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I don't know about the P100DLs, but I do remember the P85DLs and P90DL V1s were not affected because the cutoff at 1500A was at the same level as they were anyways.
What's with the whole easter egg b.s. to begin with, if not to make full power less readily available?
SDRick
Active Member
This is precisely the point.
The current launch mode and Easter egg obstacle course is designed to make full power less readily available. I'm sure most here prefer the original system where full power is obtained by simply pressing your foot all the way to the floor.
not if it causes excessive wear that would increase my chance of substantial post warranty repair costs. On the other hand I wouldn't want them to keep that available power from me completely. Instead I'd rather they allow me to toggle it off and on -- as needed.
You can't toggle on and off as needed. If you need it to pass, you can't come to a complete stop and enable launch mode. If it was as before, you aren't required to beat the car up. If you want to pamper it, you can.
No, which makes it less egregious than rolling back the power the P90DL v3 once had, but the intent is the same--this is a marketing gimmick, so don't expect to use it.
Start with this point: all the cars, from 40 to P100D have software limits that provide for less than the maximum amount of power that is physically possible from the drivetrain. If the goal was damn-the-consequences-go-as-fast as-possible, more power could be available with the likely consequence that some link in the drivetrain would break in short order.
It's likely that the non-P cars have limits to provide for sufficient distance from the P performance.
But the P cars also need to limit the available power so that the car isn't in service all the time -- including and especially post-warranty service. It needs to limit power at a level to provide appropriate balance btw performance and longevity/MTBF. They could just pick a power level and leave it at that. But from the beginning that have allowed drivers to toggle on or off various levels of power starting with sport/insane distinction.
So the power has always been reduced by software. (not unique to EVs, ICE has this counterpart in rev limiters etc.) And over time they have determined that it is possible to provide more power (e.g., the initial P85D software increases) or sometimes to limit the use of the top limits of the power (the recent changes). They are learning and making changes which improve the overall longevity/power combination.
Not knowing the data that they are no doubt collecting on wear and failure rates based on driving patterns it's hard for me to confidently second-guess the engineering trade offs that Tesla are making in the power limits and the ability to use them in various situations. I would want them to let me use regular ludi wide-open-throttle as much as possible in normal driving without causing any excessive wear on the drivetrain. I would then also want them to let me select more power with an acceptable trade-off in power vs wear when doing things like taking the car to drag strip to be an EV ambassador (and use MBP and. for some cars, LM). That seems a perfectly sensible trade off to me.
I'm not surprised that they didn't get that trade-off exactly right the first time out. (includingf when they made the P85Ds faster) and it is likely that they will continue to refine it as they collect more data and are able to make more hardware and software changes. I'm comfortable with change when I feel confident that are making improvements in the overall power/longevity balance.
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Oh, we told you that the max was 6500 rpms. But you know what, that was because that's what you need to do a 10.9 1/4 mile. It turns out, though, that the engine is going to cost us on warranty repairs unless we lower it to 5000 rpms, so we're going to reset your rev limiter after you buy the car.
Yeah, it's fine if they want to make changes going forward. They can sell cars to new buyers in any configuration they want. The buyer can then decide if they want that configuration or not. What they can't do is sell you a car with a certain amount of performance that is always available and turn it into a gimmick that's only useful at the drag strip. Then tell you it's designed for a closed coarse, but if you use it on a closed coarse it voids your warranty because then you would be racing.
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Walta
Member
I totally agree.
That being said - everyone who spent the $10K for ludicrous mode 10.9 performance got ripped off. Tesla failed to deliver that car, and should refund everyone the $10K. Along with that, Tesla needs to reduce the power to a level that you can drive the car anyway you want and not induce battery damage.
Just sayin....
I haven't seen where they represented that the same power would be available when passing as from a stop.
In fact with Launch Mode, even before the recent changes, they have said the opposite - -namely that Launch Mode "provided optimum acceleration" (p. 60 of the owner's manual). Now they just made that line in the owner's manual true.
Without evidence to the contrary I interpret any decreases or disincentives to power availability to be a reluctant but necessary trade off to purchase significant longer term reliability which will benefit consumers more than Telsa -- those like me that intend to keep the car well into the post warranty period -- but also will benefit those who intend to sell while under warranty since the price they obtain for their P model car from the buyer market will reflect the risk of significant post warranty costs for P models.
No evidence will ever be good enough for you!
Reduce the power to 100HP, increase the resale value by 10,000x.
Bah.
Yes... I can see how after the sale reduced HP will increase the value of P cars. Wait, no I don't.
How about next time Tesla reduce the specs to a sustainable level before they even announce or start selling the car? There's a novel concept.
How about next time Tesla reduce the specs to a sustainable level before they even announce or start selling the car? There's a novel concept.
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