That's kind of B.S., too. It used to be that max battery just heated the battery, then you had to use it to get the max current in addition to heating.
But yeah, of course the max battery switch "needs" to be on all the time.
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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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But yeah, of course the max battery switch "needs" to be on all the time.
That might predate my car. I think as long as I've had it, flipping the switch unlocked extra current instantly.
Either way, I'm ok with having to flip a switch to get maximum power, with the understanding that I won't leave the switch on all the time. Only when it is needed. The roadster works the same way.
Walta
Member
Good point... as ludicrous mode has evolved, it is a different argument for each buyer depending on their time of purchase expectations which were guided by the user manual at that time. If MB was in the user manual at time of purchase, then you knew that MB was required to achieve maximum power ( did/does the user manual mention it can take up to X minutes to reach MBR? ) . My ludicrous option was the 2015 version. No mention of MB or LM. So I experienced drastic changes in the ludicrous mode feature since Oct 2015. Which to me, made ludicrous mode into an option I would not have purchased. We almost need to talk about ludicrous mode like we do the battery types V1, V2 and V3 etc.
Method to achieve maximum power:
V1 - select ludicrous mode
V2 - select ludicrous mode , and wait for MBR
V3 - select ludicrous mode , and wait for MBR, and use LM
But that being said - since they no longer sell P90DL cars new - pretty much everyone who bought one has purchased a car that did not operate as expected, that because the implementation of ludicrous mode V3 was released recently. And current owners had no idea it was coming.
I think it is critical going forward that a precedence is set that will prevent over the air updates from degrading a cars worth. Reducing performance reduces worth, as would anything else that would make the car less attractive to a potential buyer.
St Charles
Tesla, not TSLA!
You are projecting my opinion on to others. I would ask you kindly not to do that. I have stated multiple times that my opinion is my own and I respect others opinions on this matter. I would like to keep this discussion constructive rather than degrade into an argument.
I don't think I projected your opinion. I only restated it as I understood it. My interpretation might be wrong, and you can certainly clairify. If you give an opinion that I disagree with, I'm free to express my dissent. I feel strongly about this topic and will continue to disagree with those who think Tesla should get a pass. I really don't know what boundaries you feel I've crossed. I'm just trying to express my point of view.
St Charles
Tesla, not TSLA!
OK. Allow me to clarify.
At no point did I state that others should accept my opinion. I, in fact, stated the opposite. See posts #4029, #4035, #4037
At no point did I state that Tesla should 'get a pass' on this issue. I, in fact, stated the opposite. See post #4035
Again, I completely understand where you and others are coming from. I used to be angry about these changes until I analyzed what they were and how it might affect my enjoyment of my car. What I found was that these changes did not impact how I would drive on a daily basis, nor would it change what I might do at a drag strip. Additionally, others have found a path to a resolution that I would find acceptable. I can keep driving the way I want; enjoy doing what I do with my Tesla the way I want. Because of this I do not feel that I can legitimately be upset.
But lets put that all aside and assume for a minute that I was to be in violent agreement with you. What could I do beyond cheering on additional posts of rage over these changes. I ask you, how is that in any way productive? We already have 200+ pages of angry posts. How does piling on more rage serve the community?
What I am willing to do is spend my time and energy gathering any useful information I can so that we may all better understand what is going on. This seems to better server the community. I am also willing to go into detail how I found peace on this change, but only if it's a constructive conversation. I'm not interested in sharing my opinions and context if the only response i will receive is how I am wrong and how I should join the bandwagon of anger.
I still plan to go to the track with a lap timer and gather some 1/4 mile times. To my knowledge, no one has yet done this with a P90DL on 8.1. Unfortunately, time is not on my side and I will not be able to get there for a few weeks.
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I'm not quite sure how to take this. When you disagree with my opinion, you are not saying that I'm wrong. But If I disagree with yours, I'm saying you're wrong. You can say I can have my opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that you disagree with it.
I find you saying:
According to Tesla you should be getting a consistent 10.9 all day long. Tesla removed the ability for you to just use a fast foot with 1600 amps, but you are ok with that.That's giving them a pass. I'm not saying you are wrong to just accept what ever Tesla gives you and be happy. I just don't agree.
And you still keep bringing up the soc like that somehow invalidates the 1600 amps advantage:
Your power is going to vary with soc just as much at 1500 amps as it does at 1600amps.
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To me the bigger scam here is the degraded performance at decreasing SoC.
There is a very noticeable difference in performance with 90% SoC vs. 45%, for example. I would guesstimate at least 1 seconds 0-60. Is that not accurate?
Prior to owning the car, I was not informed that performance would degrade with battery SoC. I understand this is a limitation of battery technology, but it does not mean there are not engineering solutions that could have been used to prevent this. The easiest would be to limit current draw maximum to what could be reliably obtained at a low SoC, but this would not sell cars. Tesla should immediately stop advertising 0-60 times of sub-3 seconds without an asterisk, that it is only available at high SoC, and that 0-60 times may be 4+ seconds in most driving conditions (or whatever the true numbers may be).
I'd wish Tesla would disclose this important fact to buyers, since this is a huge departure from ICE cars where you get BETTER performance as your tank starts to run dry.
There is a very noticeable difference in performance with 90% SoC vs. 45%, for example. I would guesstimate at least 1 seconds 0-60. Is that not accurate?
Prior to owning the car, I was not informed that performance would degrade with battery SoC. I understand this is a limitation of battery technology, but it does not mean there are not engineering solutions that could have been used to prevent this. The easiest would be to limit current draw maximum to what could be reliably obtained at a low SoC, but this would not sell cars. Tesla should immediately stop advertising 0-60 times of sub-3 seconds without an asterisk, that it is only available at high SoC, and that 0-60 times may be 4+ seconds in most driving conditions (or whatever the true numbers may be).
I'd wish Tesla would disclose this important fact to buyers, since this is a huge departure from ICE cars where you get BETTER performance as your tank starts to run dry.
In fact, they do this with the low power cars. As the state of charge decreases, they increase the max current to maintain the max horsepower.
I don't think this is actually an issue. I was well aware of this during my test drives. I tried to get the sales team to charge the car up so we could experience the best acceleration! But, I was a pretty well educated customer already. The sales staff could explain this more clearly, I guess.
There is no engineering solution to this that doesn't require intentionally reducing performance, at least for now. Once the batteries improve to allow much higher discharge currents where the motors become the limiting factor, then we will see more consistent performance regardless of SOC. But, even then, I'd rather Tesla just put larger motors so we can experience even more acceleration. Ok, maybe the limit is when we start blacking out from acceleration... but yeah. a ways to go.
Source? Not saying I don't believe you, just that I've never seen that written anywhere.
You guys were more informed than me prior to purchase. It didn't even occur to me until the first few days after ownership. I would like to charge to 100% everyday to truly enjoy the car, but get the annoying message after 2 days in a row and worried about hurting the battery.
To be fair, I don't think the car dealerships in Denver, CO tell their customers that ICE performance is for sea level and 59 degrees F.
I measured it myself on the canbus. At 50% soc and max acceleration the current was 1320 amps. When at 100 % soc, the current was 1164 amps. The max power at both socs was 390 kw.
TexasTeslaRacing
Member
IMO there is NOT a noticeable difference in performance between 100% and 25%. This issue was tested a few months back by Dragtimes with a P100D.
At 10% SOC 0-60 3.9
At 25% SOC 0-60 2.8
At 50% SOC 0-60 2.7
At 75% SOC 0-60 2.52
At 98% SOC 0-60 2.50
Somewhere between 25% and 10% is a large drop off in performance. How many of us really launch our cars at less than 30% SOC?
At 10% SOC 0-60 3.9
At 25% SOC 0-60 2.8
At 50% SOC 0-60 2.7
At 75% SOC 0-60 2.52
At 98% SOC 0-60 2.50
Somewhere between 25% and 10% is a large drop off in performance. How many of us really launch our cars at less than 30% SOC?
Fiksgts did a write up and youtube video of 0-60 at various SoC on his P100D. At 24% SoC he get 2.89s 0-60 measured by his vbox, at 10% SoC it's still under 4 seconds.
At 50% SoC his car seemed to be around .2 seconds slower in 0-60
Tesla P100D Ludicrous Testing 0-60 MPH vs Battery State of Charge from 10% to 100%.
The effect isn't as great, but it's still there.A valid point - unless you have some form of forced induction.
Has it ever been tested in the 70-100MPH range? It certainly seems noticeable, maybe I will test it. I'm sure there's an app for that!
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