Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
and don't other manufactures warn owners / buyers in the manual of such limits so new owners don't damage there car etc...
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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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- Tesla Inc.
Bangor Bob
Member
Yeah, I'm thinking halfshafts, CV joints, differential, reduction gearset, the drive unit case itself, etc. Something mechanical.
If WK057's "I need two of these, the big ones" project comes together he may eventually find the weak link, as you can bet his won't have any launch counters enabled.
If WK057's "I need two of these, the big ones" project comes together he may eventually find the weak link, as you can bet his won't have any launch counters enabled.
SDRick
Active Member
I'm surprised this phenomenon has not yet been documented at the dragstrip. What kind of reduction in 0 to 60 is to be expected?
How exactly do you upgrade to a P100DL?
Is it just a battery swap or is it the entire car?
THIS!
Come on Elon, if accurate, this thread is a classic example of what NOT to do. Stop with the secrets and come clean. We don't expect perfection. On the contrary, when on the cutting edge, we expect occasional blood. So something is wearing or breaking and you're counting and then limiting our launches? No. What to do is listed above.
Another option: plan a buy back of our P90DL's and let us upgrade to P100D's at a very reasonable cost. You'll have even more Goodwill, stellar press, and Customers for Life. (And the trade-in P90DL's all get downgraded to "non-L's" and sold as CPO's or become Service Loaners. Win-win.)
Just do it.
Thanks.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
its an upgrade option for my existing car, supposedly that will be offered early next year. This is only available to refreshed p90dl cars... I'm sure we will get more details when its released but I was told this upgrade would provide the same performance as a new p100dl in my existing car
I'm curious to see what's all involved in it. Tesla is claiming it's mechanical wear and tear from launching, but if it's a battery only upgrade then that's not the case. Unless Tesla decided there was enough profit on the P100DL to counteract the increased warranty claims from lots of launching.
Translation: "We have surreptitiously impaired your vehicle after you purchased it to protect us against potential future warranty claims arising from its legitimate use. But if you'd like to give us a bunch more money we can provide you a vehicle not so impaired."
Wow. Not quite extortion, but damn close.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
supposedly the refreshed cars have other changes that were leading up to the p100dl so only refreshed p90dl can be upgraded to the 100...
By not communicating about this openly, Tesla is actually creating their on FUD. Probably unintentionally of course (shoutout to @ohmman
).This is one of the problems of not being open: people don't know the extent of the issue, so they perhaps assume the worst or at the very least can misplace their concerns - and because they know you've kept things from them before, they (rightly) assume it can happen again, but again because nobody knows beforehand when it exactly happens, the scepticism spreads to many things that have no issue.
Maybe it is just the P90DL V2. But I guarantee you, every P85D, other P90D and even P100D owner reading this is now thinking twice about doing that thing that actually makes Teslas so exhilarating. (And no, I'm not talking about supercharging your service center invoice.)
That's one cost of such subterfuge.
Apparently people were holding the Tesla wrong.
whitex
Well-Known Member
How about a summary:
What happened:
It seems users in the wild are reporting that P90DL's reduce performance after some number of launches. A couple of people report Tesla confirming this (after some pushing) as a way to "protect the drive train".
What can we do:
Collect more data so see whether P90DL2 are the only cars affected. Keep sharing data with each other. Hard data is so much better than speculations. So if you have hard data (Power Tools, Tesla communications, etc) PLEASE SHARE!
What probably happened (SPECULATIONS):
Most likely Tesla discovered after selling the cars that there are likely failures that can occur due launching, so they decided to limit the number of launches. This would be consistent with Tesla selling stuff before it's ready and/or tested (e.g. AutoPilot 1 and 2).
A less likely, but possible explanation is that they needed to redeem themselves after the 961hp P85D fiasco and needed end-user reports of actually hitting the advertised performance numbers on new cars, so they introduced a limit of launches.
What happened:
It seems users in the wild are reporting that P90DL's reduce performance after some number of launches. A couple of people report Tesla confirming this (after some pushing) as a way to "protect the drive train".
What can we do:
Collect more data so see whether P90DL2 are the only cars affected. Keep sharing data with each other. Hard data is so much better than speculations. So if you have hard data (Power Tools, Tesla communications, etc) PLEASE SHARE!
What probably happened (SPECULATIONS):
Most likely Tesla discovered after selling the cars that there are likely failures that can occur due launching, so they decided to limit the number of launches. This would be consistent with Tesla selling stuff before it's ready and/or tested (e.g. AutoPilot 1 and 2).
A less likely, but possible explanation is that they needed to redeem themselves after the 961hp P85D fiasco and needed end-user reports of actually hitting the advertised performance numbers on new cars, so they introduced a limit of launches.
Old Man Mike
Member
Sorry but this is NOT true. The unrefreshed P90DL cars can be upgraded to a P100DL with absolutely the same performance. This was verified by my SC at the time of the upgrade announcement. Part of the upgrade is replacement of wiring harness to support the higher current of the new battery.
Pfft. Launch limits.....
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
This is all pointing towards some 1600 ampish batteries being released (likely to make the advertised 10.9 number which is purely speculation on my part) then learning the hard way in the field that the battery is not up to continued 1600 amp use. This is similar to the over the air upgrade for P85D owners which turned into a fuse/contactor upgrade when Tesla found out the batteries were not up to 1500 ampish use.
If you can upgrade a P90DL to a P100D (L implied) by swapping out the battery and, in so doing, remove the launch limit then you have pretty much reduced the problem to the battery. This makes the most sense to me.
I suspected in my dealings with Tesla as early as early 2013 that the company was comprised of wide eyed kids that did not know better being directed by a few Silicon Valley mindset managers. The result is centralized authoritarian decision making by managers that treat $100K hard asset buyers like software customers. We reserve the right to do whatever we want whenever we want without regard for your concerns. The only time there is a change or flexibility is when there is a significant window into the behavior. If it is a nationally polled quality survey, Tesla is all over it. If it is paying returning customers $10K less for their Model S trade in (in comparison to another wholesale bid by a reputable wholesale dealer) so that Tesla can maintain margins on its fledgling CPO business at the expense of those that have previously bought their product, that is ok because most people will never know and those that figure it out have no voice.
In short, I suspect Tesla's engineering approach applies to their business ethics. They do what makes sense, not what is right. Of course, all of this is justified by doing the ultimate right of removing ICE from the road (or not, your call).
As for the other manufacturers doing it, this is looking more and more like Mazda's problems with RX-8 customers or Nissan's with the GTR. If Tesla pisses off enough people this will come back to bite them. Luckily, production numbers for the 10.9 second quarter battery are likely very low of which a sub set will be those that reach the limit with a sub set of that sub set of them realizing it has happened. Put differently, the numbers are likely VERY small thus the exposure is small. Again, making the sensible decision without messy moral constraints. The issue has been around for a while now and we've dug up three or four affected by the problem. Providing an affordable (not the $50K it would cost me) upgrade to the P100D will likely make these customers very happy.
If you can upgrade a P90DL to a P100D (L implied) by swapping out the battery and, in so doing, remove the launch limit then you have pretty much reduced the problem to the battery. This makes the most sense to me.
I suspected in my dealings with Tesla as early as early 2013 that the company was comprised of wide eyed kids that did not know better being directed by a few Silicon Valley mindset managers. The result is centralized authoritarian decision making by managers that treat $100K hard asset buyers like software customers. We reserve the right to do whatever we want whenever we want without regard for your concerns. The only time there is a change or flexibility is when there is a significant window into the behavior. If it is a nationally polled quality survey, Tesla is all over it. If it is paying returning customers $10K less for their Model S trade in (in comparison to another wholesale bid by a reputable wholesale dealer) so that Tesla can maintain margins on its fledgling CPO business at the expense of those that have previously bought their product, that is ok because most people will never know and those that figure it out have no voice.
In short, I suspect Tesla's engineering approach applies to their business ethics. They do what makes sense, not what is right. Of course, all of this is justified by doing the ultimate right of removing ICE from the road (or not, your call).
As for the other manufacturers doing it, this is looking more and more like Mazda's problems with RX-8 customers or Nissan's with the GTR. If Tesla pisses off enough people this will come back to bite them. Luckily, production numbers for the 10.9 second quarter battery are likely very low of which a sub set will be those that reach the limit with a sub set of that sub set of them realizing it has happened. Put differently, the numbers are likely VERY small thus the exposure is small. Again, making the sensible decision without messy moral constraints. The issue has been around for a while now and we've dug up three or four affected by the problem. Providing an affordable (not the $50K it would cost me) upgrade to the P100D will likely make these customers very happy.
Tesla was quite about P85D fiasco, and probably will stay quite about this one too. Until someone sues them.
Just to clarify my friend I referred to previously is Tech_Guy and since he is now posting I can reveal his identity.
@Tech_Guy
Were your launches for demonstrating go pedal or Launch Mode?
@Tech_Guy
Were your launches for demonstrating go pedal or Launch Mode?
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