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Panasonic: new cells holding 3400mA ready in 2012 more than 50% increase

Discussion in 'News' started by Eberhard, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    FORSCHUNG UND ENTWICKLUNG
    Panasonic entwickelt Li-Ionen-Batterie des Typs 18650 mit einer Spitzenkapazität von 3,4Ah




    Für den Einsatz in portablem Equipment aller Art entwickelt der Geschäftsbereich Panasonic Industriebatterien jetzt eine besonders leistungsstarke 3,6V Li-Ionen-Batterien des Standards 18650: Dank der innovativen NNP-Technologie wird der Typ NCR18650 eine Kapazität von 3,4Ah erzielen. Die spezielle HRL-Technologie garantiert dabei höchste Sicherheit.



    Für die neue Batterie des Typs 18650 (18 mm Durchmesser x 65 mm Länge), der als Standard für viele mobile Anwendungen gilt, setzt Panasonic seine „Nickel Oxide bases New Platform“ (NNP)-Technologie ein. Kernstück ist eine neu entwickelte, für Panasonic patentierte nickelbasierte positive Elektrode, die sehr hohe Kapazitäten ermöglicht. Darüber hinaus verhindern das Material und die Prozess-Technologie die Verformung der aus einer Legierung bestehenden negativen Elektrode bei wieder¬holten Aufladevorgängen.

    Damit wird die neue Batterie bei reduziertem Gewicht die höchste Kapazität auf dem Markt von 3,4Ah sowie eine Energiedichte von 730 Wh/L (NCR18650) erreichen. Hinzu kommen eine hohe Zyklenfestigkeit und ein sehr gutes Ladeverhalten sowie eine heraus¬ragende Lagerfähigkeit dank sehr geringer Selbstentladung. Daraus ergibt sich insgesamt eine excellente Performance über den gesamten Lebenszyklus.

    Trotz der gesteigerten Leistung, die normalerweise zu einem erhöhten Sicherheits¬risiko führt, bleiben die Panasonic Batterie dank der patentierten Heat Resistant Layer (HRL)-Technologie besonders sicher. Diese Lösung besteht aus einer isolierten Metalloxid-Schicht zwischen den Elektroden, die eine Überhitzung selbst bei einem internen Kurzschluss verhindert.
     
  2. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Quick Google translate:


    RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
    Panasonic developed Li-ion battery of the type 18 650 with a peak capacity of 3.4 Ah




    For use in portable equipment of all types of industrial batteries Panasonic division is now developing a particularly powerful 3.6V Li-ion batteries of the standard 18650 Thanks to the innovative technology, the NNP-type NCR18650 achieve a capacity of 3.4 Ah. The special HRL technology guarantees the highest level of security.



    For the new cell, type 18650 (18 mm diameter x 65 mm length), which is considered standard for many mobile applications, is a Panasonic's "Nickel oxides bases New Platform (NNP) technology. The centerpiece is a newly developed and patented for Panasonic nickel-based positive electrode, which allows for very high capacities. In addition, preventing the material and process technology, the deformation of an alloy consisting of negative electrode in re ¬ outdated charge cycle.

    To put the new battery at a reduced weight, the highest capacity in the market of 3.4 Ah and a power density of 730 Wh / L (NCR18650) is reached. It has high resistance to cycling and a very good performance and a charge out ¬ superior shelf life due to very low self discharge. This results in an overall excellent performance over the entire life cycle.

    Despite the increased power, which usually leads to an increased safety risk ¬, the Panasonic battery is installed, thanks to the patented Heat Resistant Layer (HRL) technology more secure. This solution consists of an insulated metal oxide layer between the electrodes, which prevents overheating even when an internal short circuit.


    Q: Is this the Model S cell?
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Curious. Of course they have been lab testing them and probably even checking their performance in portable tools and laptops but, could they spare 8000 for a Model S testing/ Tesla tends to use proven batteries. Testing would seem a minimum.
     
  4. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Yeah, Tesla has a lot to prove. Using unproven technology in their first mass-market vehicle is a big gamble. Would probably make more sense to start offering packs made with them to Roadster owners to test and abuse for a year or so.

    Being that they'll be ready in 2012, it could mean Tesla will be testing them for the next year OR it could be ready in 2012, tested for a year, and then used for the 300 mile pack in a future model year.

    Lastly, Tesla HAS traditionally used established/proven batteries, but I think now that they've somewhat proven themselves, they can go to manufacturers and ask for specific chemistries/compositions vs using off-the-shelf stuff. Could also be what brought these on. *shrug*
     
  5. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Sign me up for that program; I'll put myself through the pain of testing a 350mile pack.
     
  6. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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  7. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/panasonic-20091225.html
    This seems to be confirmation of what we heard in Dec 2009.

    For Tesla, I'm pretty sure they already locked in the 3100mah cells, which have been in production for a couple of months already. They did a press release about it back in April 2010:
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/23/panasonics-3-1ah-batteries-to-be-used-in-the-tesla-model-s-hav/

    The 3400mah will probably be a couple years down the line after the Model S is released.
     
  8. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I'd love to see them tested in a Roadster. To show those that say, you know, EV road trips are not possible.
     
  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I think they could offer this as an upgrade option for Roadster owners. You'd have to send your car to Menlo Park but some people may be willing to spend money (probably a lot) to upgrade to a 300+ mile pack (standard charge).

    What is the mA rating on the current cells? I tried to search but didn't find it.
     
  10. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    2.2 ah cells
     
  11. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    The next steps: 3100mA for Model S 300miles Range,
    2013: 3400mA = 330miles, 2014: 4000mA = 400miles
     
  12. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Good numbers on paper, but as I said in a thread on the R8 forums; it'll need to be a combination of larger capacity and recharge times to make EVs an effortless choice. 400 miles is great, but a 10 hour (hypothetical) recharge time afterwards might not be so great. In the case of a road trip, not a big deal because you're probably staying the night somwhere, but that still leaves you with about 6 hours of drive time in between charges.

    In other words, get up and leave around 9am, stop @ 3pm, recharge, ready to hit the road again at 1am, and ready to stop again at 7am. ICE would win hands down there.
     
  13. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    Nah you could probably do a quickish charge during lunch and dinnertime. Drive from 09 to 13, recharge for an hour, drive until 17, recharge for another hour or two and do 2-3 hours more of driving. Then recharge for the night... Decent lvl 2 charging should get you a day of driving. Though I must say the trips from Kiel to Antwerp we did as kids in the back seat doesn't exactly fill me with joy. The stay in Antwerp yes, but not the driving, I'd rather take a train or a plane for that kind of trip...

    Cobos
     
  14. Alan

    Alan Member

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    Hopefully they will offer 2 options with these higher capacity cells - 82kWh pack for extra range and a cheaper / lighter 53kWh pack using less cells (assuming they can deliver the same peak current from less, but higher capacity cells).

    The lighter pack could reduce the pack weight by perhaps 135kg taking the whole car down to 1100kg. That could drop the 0 to 60 down to about 3.4 seconds. I will volunteer to test this pack!
     
  15. suxxer

    suxxer ElektroVolt

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    Yeah - from 56 kWh to 87 kWh (69*3.4Ah*375V).
    That's a 1.55 boost factor for the EPA range: from 221 miles (355 km) up to 342 (550 km) miles!
     
  16. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Where does the 10 hours come from? It's not the case for HPC charges and certainly not for DC fast charges.
     
  17. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I agree. I hope the Model S at least has ability for DC fast charging.

    Know it's minor but how do we fix Panasonic typo in thread title?
     
  18. theBike45

    theBike45 Banned

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    Rawlinson has stated that the Model S initially would NOT have available the 300 mile battery pack, which seems to make obvious that
    the 3400mah cells will make the 300 mile pack ready when Panasonic releases them for commercial production. Panasonic clearly said 2012,
    which, as we all know, is the target for the Model S - I think it was quarter 2. It's obvious that their pack will be able to accomodate
    several different cell counts.
     
  19. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Bike, I agree that Tesla did say that the 300 mile pack would initially be unavailable...however, the last time I heard that, the Model S was to be starting deliveries in the 4th quarter of 2011.

    Does anyone know of a more current statement from TM that would apply with the present expected delivery dates of 3rd-4th quarter 2012?

    If so, as one who would like the larger pack, I'd really like to know...
     
  20. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    My area sales rep told me last week that the 300 mile pack would not be available at launch.
     

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