My understanding is the NEC code requires 36" inches in front of panel - A/C units are 48". How far out did your friend move his AC units?
Panel upgrade
- Thread starter Eric99
- Start date
To comply with code- could the refrigerant lines be run 36" from the front of the panel? If that were the case- they could re-run the one refrigerant line that currently is located under the panel and gas meter over to run parallel with the other line set. Currently, the line sets are mounted to pressure treated blocks of wood. I am trying to determine the most cost-effective way to conform with the 3' rule?
Here's what the NEC requires: you need a stable flat 30" wide by 36" deep (perpendicular to the wall) platform in front of the service panel. The 30" width has to cover the full width of the service panel. The platform could be your slab, or it could be raised up (as I mentioned, if the A/C lines are low enough, one could build a platform 7" off the slab (one step) to cover them.).
Then you need to be able to put a 30" wide x 36" deep x 80" tall box on that platform up against the panel cover (ignoring the meter projecting out), and have basically nothing else intersect that box. That "box" is the working space required. Related electrical equipment (like the meter) is allowed to stick out I think up to 6" into the box. Probably the telephone terminal box violates the working space, and should be moved, but that's minor enough that you can probably ignore it.
The best you can hope for is to take care of the A/C line violation and hope the gas meter violation is led slide. People understand moving the gas meter is a lot harder than fixing the A/C lines, and that gas riser has been there a lot longer than those particular A/C lines have been. Whoever installed the new A/C units last year should have rerouted the A/C lines--you should go after them now to fix it.
Cheers, Wayne
Then you need to be able to put a 30" wide x 36" deep x 80" tall box on that platform up against the panel cover (ignoring the meter projecting out), and have basically nothing else intersect that box. That "box" is the working space required. Related electrical equipment (like the meter) is allowed to stick out I think up to 6" into the box. Probably the telephone terminal box violates the working space, and should be moved, but that's minor enough that you can probably ignore it.
The best you can hope for is to take care of the A/C line violation and hope the gas meter violation is led slide. People understand moving the gas meter is a lot harder than fixing the A/C lines, and that gas riser has been there a lot longer than those particular A/C lines have been. Whoever installed the new A/C units last year should have rerouted the A/C lines--you should go after them now to fix it.
Cheers, Wayne
Got it I now understand what you mean by building a subfloor above these lines - I think building a box sub floor over the existing ac line set makes the most economic sense. But as you suggest I will call my HVAC contractor. I guess the other solution would be to relocate the current line set that runs under the gas meter to run parallel with the other. As I read the NEC rule the 30” width can be measured from left most, right most or centered on the box. The biggest current obstacle to the 30” x 36” space is the gas meter and those electrical conduit to the the AC. Thanks for helping problem solve.
My friend moved the AC units completely to a different side of his house. That was some work including heavy trenching.
Electrical conduits are electrical-related, so like the meter, they can project up to 6" past the face of the panel.
Cheers, Wayne
Super helpful info on the electrical conduit thanks. I taped out a 30” wide from left panel side by 36” deep box (see pic). So then beyond the legacy gas meter location this actually is solvable, The ac condenser while people may not like the location on this thread are actually further away from panel than required 4’ vs 3’ and there should be no issue with the condensers themselves.
So really the issue is the a/c copper line set from the ac units which we can either:
Option 1: cover with a platform
Option 2: relocate to one side or other.
The only place they intersect the 30x36” box is along the back wall where it runs under the gas meter.
Any other thoughts I am missing?
So really the issue is the a/c copper line set from the ac units which we can either:
Option 1: cover with a platform
Option 2: relocate to one side or other.
The only place they intersect the 30x36” box is along the back wall where it runs under the gas meter.
Any other thoughts I am missing?
Also - does anyone know if I can hire a local plumber to move the gas meter outside the blue box. We would need to add a 90 degree and run main line pipe over maybe a foot and then relocate the gas meter? Or does meter movement have to happen by PG&E?
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
@CalMdl3 The minimums are referenced/based off the riser coming out of the concrete. Refer to www.pge.com/greenbook. Skip to PDF page 92 of 424: https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/p...servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf
I recommend leaving things as they, but definitely move the A/C electrical conduit, which is pennies compared to moving the gas riser or the service panel. PG&E expect nice big round elbows for 3" underground conduit which means tearing up the concrete. If your electrical service is overhead to an electrical pole, moving service panels is significantly cheaper. Your meter sits low in the panel so you most likely have underground service.
I would suggest that unless you move the gas meter (trouble), you should shift the blue box as far to the left as possible, so as to avoid as much of the gas meter as possible. And then move the A/C lines as required.
One possible additional wrinkle--one could argue that 110.26(C) "Entrance to and Egress from Working Space" applies outdoors, and that requires a 24" wide path to get to the working space. Is there a gate in that fence to the left of the panel? Because it doesn't look like there's a 24" wide path between the condensers.
Cheers, Wayne
One possible additional wrinkle--one could argue that 110.26(C) "Entrance to and Egress from Working Space" applies outdoors, and that requires a 24" wide path to get to the working space. Is there a gate in that fence to the left of the panel? Because it doesn't look like there's a 24" wide path between the condensers.
Cheers, Wayne
In looking at your picture from that angle it looks like if you moved the box all the way to the left the gas pipe coming out of the ground would be outside the box... or just on the very edge at least and it would just be that circular thingie hanging into the box (a regulator maybe). I’m wondering if a plumber would be able to twist that circular thingie around to get it closer to the meter and get it out of the box as well.
My advice: don't touch the gas meter or lines unless and until it fails inspection. It's clearly been like that for a while and previous inspections didn't fail for that reason. I would also be inclined to place the platform to the left of where the gas line comes out of the concrete. It appears to be completely to the right of the right edge of the panel.
You are correct the electric main service comes from underground. So moving the MSP would be costly. Good suggestions on moving the conduit- that is easy.
That makes sense moving far left - I might look at building the platform as you suggest over the AC lines to the fence and then install a 24" swing panel in the fence. Is it acceptable to build the platform out of wood decking? There happens to be a large access from the right side because the garage wall to the right of the meter ends about 48" and then there is 36" fence gate but you still have to step over condenser lines.
Here is a picture of the blue box 36" deep by 30" wide as measured from the right side of the MSP. I can build a platform above the refrigerant lines and create a 30" access gate in the fence directly adjacent (on left). There is also easy access from the right. Can I rotate the gas meter vent toward the house?
As miimura suggested, I would do everything except rotate the regulator. Hold that back as an option if someone in authority says.what you've done is not enough.
How high off the slab are the refrigerant line penetrations? And the white PVC?
Cheers, Wayne
How high off the slab are the refrigerant line penetrations? And the white PVC?
Cheers, Wayne
PS. If the A/C.conduit is the only obstacle to a clear 24" access from the right, it would be simpler to address that than add a gate on the left.
SoundDaTrumpet
Member
@calmd What is on the opposite side of the proposed gate? Perhaps, the fence can be moved or eliminated.
The garage door and driveway are on the other side of the fence on the left. The fence separates the driveway and garage area from the backyard. So we would like to maintain that fence or a gate for privacy and security.
Last edited:
That would work but we still have the other a/c refrigerant line. I am thinking the platform above all these refrigerant and conduits is the way to go. Of course if built out of wood it will become another maintenance item versus the current concrete slab. I would want to build the platform so that it can be easily removed in case we need to service the conduit or refrigerant lines. I dread the thought of all those leaves getting trapped under the platform. But if built correctly hopefully we keep those out while allowing water to drain away.
